DID KLOBUCHAR APPROVE?
There is a very interesting discussing going on here about Hennepin County's "wilfull and deliberate violation of Minnesota Statute 624.714, Subd. 23."
Tuesday, February 28, 2006
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7 Comments:
ummmm if the hennepin COUNTY library has a question legal question about a minnesota statute and its application. Then they should be able to consult with the COUNTY ATTORNEY.
The HCL put up the unlawful signs at the direction of the County Attorney's office. And, after they got caught redhanded, having violated the requirements of the law, the Hennepin County Attorney's office reversed themselves.
The problem isn't a failure to consult; the problem is that the unlawful signs were put up at the direction of the County Attorney's office, and that a citizen was then, in accordance with those signs (but in contravention to Minn. Stat. 624.714 Subd. 23) rousted at the direction of the library, acting, as they say, "under color of authority."
Glad to clear that up.
why the hell would someone what to bring a gun into a library? Second i have been to libraries in mower, nobles, murray, freeborn, olmsted, ramsey, dakota, and hennepin counties since the c and c law was passed, all have no guns allowed signed clearly posted
Let's start off by your interesting information that each and every one of these libraries is violating the law. (Government entities aren't allowed to ban lawful carry -- again, read the law.) Do you find it troubling when government agencies violate the law? (Again, see Minn. Stat. 624.714, and particularly Subd 23.)
I guess somebody would want to do it for the same reason that many permit holders carry pretty much everywhere (except where it's unlawful): because a personal safety issue can happen anywhere, of course.
Do remember that the first well-documented defensive gun use by a permit holder after the carry law passed happened on a very nice streetcorner in Eden Prairie, on a nice spring afternoon. Not the sort of place somebody would expect to need a gun for self-defense.
Me, as somebody who teaches this stuff, I tell people that if you're thinking of going to a place where you expect to need a gun for self-defense, reconsider the trip.
By the way, there is no "c and c" law or "conceal and carry law" in Minnesota. See http://www.concealandcarry.com .
i do not dispute that the second amendment is not important ( that is why it is the second one) I disagree with you in calling AK incompetent or worse, as outlined by the numerous libraries and other government buildings that I have been in that ban guns on their premises. Under subd. 23, the Ramsey County Courthouse would not be allowed to ban handguns inside its building. It is against the law by MN Statute to have a handgun in a courthouse. But subd. 23 makes no mention of being modified or modifying that statute. Additionally, one could make the arguement that subd. 23 only controls the procedural criteria, NOT THE GEOGRAPHICAL PARAMETERS, of issueing a permit (i.e. who gets it, and how they get it) and may allow a governmental entity to prevent the carrier from bringing the weapon into a building predominately used by children and the elderly (library). I think that if the issue where to be litigated the county would have to pass a strict scrutiny test, where as most gun legislation gets a intermediate, or reasonable relation test. I think we can agree on that?
Well, let's see if we can clear up some facts for you.
Reread the entire statute, 624.714, again. It lists the places and have the option to exclude permit holders, and the criteria for excluding permit holders.
Government buildings don't qualify, certainly including the courts. Government officials can't modify the criteria -- that's what Sub. 23 is all about.
(The County Attorney's office, by the way, is terrified that this case might be litigated -- they know that they'll lose. The word quickly went out not to create any discoverable paper or email trail about this. Feel free to call them about this case and see what they have to say; they'll stonewall you, because they're very nervous about having been caught out.)
It is against Minnesota law to have a gun in the courthouse UNLESS it's carried by (among other folks), a permit holder who has given notice to OR gotten permission from the sheriff in charge of the courthouse. (See Minn. Stat. 609.066.)
I suggest giving notice; it's easier. See p. 130 of the standard (if only by process of elimination) book on the subject of carrying a handgun in Minnesota, which has the snappy title of "Everything You Need to Know About (Legally) Carrying a Handgun in Minnesota." I'm not going to say that the book is good, or bad -- I wrote it, and my opinion is not objective.
That any help?
While I don't want to hijack a discussion from our host, this is the sort of thing that we often discuss at the Twin Cities Carry Forum -- see http://forum.twincitiescarry.com -- and people with strong feelings on any side of the issue, including you, are invited to participate.
Just a quick followup, the relevant statute on carrying in a courthouse:
Subd. 1g. Felony; possession in courthouse or certain state buildings. (a) A person who commits either of the
following acts is guilty of a felony and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than five years or to payment of a fine of not more than $10,000, or both:
(1) possesses a dangerous weapon, ammunition, or explosives
within any courthouse... this subdivision does not apply to ...
persons who carry pistols according to the terms of a permit issued under section 624.714 and who so notify the sheriff...
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