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MINN POST: “DFL PARTY PROBLEMS GO DEEPER THAN FINANCES AND DEBT”
By Michael B. Brodkorb | November 12, 2007
"When the DFL Central Committee, a vast body of activists who run the party, met Saturday at Prior Lake High School, good feelings filled the air about financial and electoral successes that surely are just around the corner. Even when the party's chairman Brian Melendez said the party may not be out of debt until January, no one blinked.
All the good will inside the building almost covered the fact that there seem to be structural fissures in the party that could affect its campaign effectiveness next year. Some large bodies of the labor movement are 're-evaluating' their relationships with the DFL.
In both words and actions, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) is the union showing the most unrest. But the AFL-CIO, the umbrella organization of unions representing 300,000 Minnesotans, also is cautiously expressing concerns about DFL leadership." Source: MinnPost, November 12, 2007
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36 Responses to “MINN POST: “DFL PARTY PROBLEMS GO DEEPER THAN FINANCES AND DEBT””
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November 12th, 2007 at 8:12 PM
This could get scary in the next legislative session when they try to satisfy all these groups in exchange for campaign money, which if the DFL doesn’t get you can pretty much stick a fork in them.
November 12th, 2007 at 9:08 PM
That is probably why the DFL won’t compromise on transportation. They’d rather have the campaign donations from the road construction lobby than solve the problem.
November 12th, 2007 at 10:02 PM
I think the problem is on other issues:
* Healthy care for example single payer (aka government control) is the goal since the health insurance will be automatic and unions won’t be worrying about having to give up money that will otherwise go to wage increases.
* A minimum wage increase.
Those are two I can think of off the top of my head and keep in mind I’m in evil organized labor.
I think the most frustrating thing is that there were big majorties in both state houses not to mention federal and hardly anything has change. AFSCME has given Hillary a quick endorsement (big surprise since their public employee magazine in trying to tell the members who is most qualfied left out every single Republican candidate). Maybe they’re like blacks in the Democrat party we expect your money and votes, but we really won’t get your objectives met. No wonder why they’re frustrated.
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
November 12th, 2007 at 11:09 PM
“Maybe they’re like blacks in the Democrat party we expect your money and votes, but we really won’t get your objectives met. No wonder why they’re frustrated.”
Ever hear of a “black” guy named Obama, Walter? He’s running for the Democratic nomination… it’s time to take the newspaper off your windows. Please tell us what “black” people should expect from the Republican party.
Walter are you really George Allen?
November 12th, 2007 at 11:36 PM
The DFL’s agenda and the Union’s agenda don’t overlap exactly, but it’s usually pretty close. Is someone actually going to suggest that AFSCME and the AFL-CIO will jump ship to the Republicans? lol!
All the unions are doing is trying to flex their muscle, they do it all the time and for the most part it’s harmless, but it seems to make them feel good. There is no way these Unions are going to sit on their hands in 2008, they will be out in full force, pounding signs, doors, lit dropping, target mailing and writing healthy checks to the DFL.
November 12th, 2007 at 11:38 PM
Fred:
I am not George Allen. Here’s why I made that thought. Democrats have for years have got basically 90% of the black vote and what have they achieved?
* They are limited to public schools because the Democrats want to make sure they have the support of the teacher unions so they kill vouchers. Isn’t it ironic that in Washington D.C. which has a reputation for poor public schools have Democrat lawmakers who can afford to place their children in good private schools ssy that parents (which because Washington D.C. is largely black) say poor black parents in that city don’t have the flexibility like the lawmakers to pick what school their children go to.
* New Orleans is suppose to be a dream for Democrat rule and blacks. I don’t remember the last time a Republican was elected mayor. A Democrat was governor for several years in a row elected by the margins of black voters in Lousiana. Yet if you look at how the states of Lousiana and in particular the city of New Orleans compared with the state of Mississippi has recoved from hurrican Mississippi is doing better in part because of the difference of the philosphy of the Republicans who lead Mississippi instead of the Democrats in Lousiana.
* When Condi Rice got nominated to be the first ever black woman to be Secretary of State instead of praise and people thinking it was great appointment there were jokes she like the pankcake syrup lady.
* President Bush in 2000 was given grief because he didn’t support hate crime legislature yet the case used to show his lack of compassion the men who committed the crime were given the death penalty which President Bush as governor of Texas upheld.
* In effect the problems faced by the average black in large cities hasn’t changed over the last thirty plus years yet they keep voting for the same party that doesn’t change things for them. And when Republicans try to do steps and laws to help the Democrats oppose the laws.
That’s what I was referring. We want your votes, but we won’t deliver anything for you. And apparently the same thing is now happening to organize labor.
I’m not racist and I want an apology for that charge. Especially for even thinking I’m George Allen. If you want a racist from Virginia read the books written by the man who defeated Mr. Allen. There’s a racist!
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
November 13th, 2007 at 12:24 AM
Fred:
Just curious since you want to cut me down for being a racist do you support these things:
* What political party doesn’t care that one of their members was a member of Klu Klux Klan. Not only was he a member he was an important leader in his local branch. Do you know what Republican that is? Sorry it’s Robert Byrd a Democrat Senator from West Virginia.
* Do you know what leading Republican Presidential Candidate went to a black church and in effort to show they wanted support of blacks gave a speech that had a very silly and very phony black tone of voice? By the laughter the audience was giving they were enjoying the speech instead of feeling insulted by the way. Oh sorry to disappoint you that was Democrat front runner Hillary Clinton who did that.
And Fred can you identify the Republican who said this very silly (and warning for everybody who is about to read this I consider this to be a racist quote which I don’t support). I’m just trying to make a point since I was called a racist:
“What we’re dealing with in the black community is just the natural fear of possibility. You know, when I look at my life, you know, the stuff that we’re seeing in these polls has played out my whole life you know? I can’t do something. My scores weren’t high enough. You know there’s always that doubt in the back of the minds of people of color, people who have been oppressed and haven’t been given real opportunties that you never really believe that you believe that somehow someone is better than you.”
Wouldn’t you agree with me Fred that is a very racist remark. What stupid Republican said that?
Sorry Fred those comments were made yesterday by the wife of Obama the man you thought I didn’t know existed. And Fred this isn’t even the first remark she has made that you can say is very insulting about blacks! This is a perfect example of the attitude of Democrats taking blacks for granted and not advancing their agenda. Clarence Thomas who is hated by Democrats recently wrote a book where one of his major points is to remain positive and keep trying your best. That doesn’t sound like the attitude Obama’s wife expressed!!!!
I agreee with Clarence Thomas and I certainly don’t agree with Obama’s wife. Of course that’s because I’m not a racist.
I’m looking forward to your apology Fred!!!!
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
November 13th, 2007 at 6:36 AM
“Ever hear of a “black†guy named Obama, Walter?”
Obama’s not black… LOL! Where did you get that silly idea? I’m more black than he is.
Obama, however, is a complete idiot. Unqualified for the office he’s holding, it’s almost funny to watch that tool run for President.
“Please tell us what “black†people should expect from the Republican party.”
The will get from the Republican party, everything they have not received from Democrat’s empty promises. … namely, they get opportunity from GOP policies, versus pandering and political enslavement and the continued degradation of their cultures and their values that liberals are obsessed about.
Liberals are the most racist people I’ve ever seen.
November 13th, 2007 at 9:58 AM
Do I hear the possibility of a forthcoming Labor Party movement? Brilliant!
November 13th, 2007 at 10:43 AM
What is this DFL group that dictates where campaign money gets spent? Who is on it? What are the dues? Can anyone join? There needs to be a real investigation here. Isn’t earmarking and coordination illegal? They claim to have “flipped the legislature” yet they operate completely in the dark.
Minnesotans have a right to know who is pulling the strings on the campaigns that form our government. Where’s the media on this????
November 13th, 2007 at 10:44 AM
Been there, done that Ryan. Although a few labor leaders have egos that big, reality sets in very quickly.
November 13th, 2007 at 10:48 AM
Love your post Chestnut!
“Obama, however, is a complete idiot. Unqualified for the office he’s holding, it’s almost funny to watch that tool run for President.”
He’s nothing like Dubya, who spent most of his years drunk and snorting coke. Driving every business he touched into debt and bankruptcy and living off his family name. Let us not forget his Governorship of a backwardsass state, that still thinks it’s a country.
No one can match the well rounded background of King George!
November 13th, 2007 at 11:04 AM
“He’s nothing like Dubya, who spent most of his years drunk and snorting coke.”
Do you know something nobody else does? Or do you just enjoy slandering people? It’s true George W. Bush is an alcoholic. Do you have this level of contempt for all addicts?
“Let us not forget his Governorship of a backwardsass state, that still thinks it’s a country.”
Why would anyone want to forget it? In Texas — which by, according to it’s statehood, retains the rights of a Republic (a country), it’s unique — he racked up a remarkable career as a politician who accomplished much in that great state.
There’s nothing backward about Texas… as compared to say, Vermont or New York.
November 13th, 2007 at 11:48 AM
keep in mind folks that quote in number 7 came from Obama’s “wife”. It wasn’t her first stupid quote that was cutting down blacks. If a Republican had said something like this he or she would’ve been cruicfied. The reporter who did the interview apparently had no problem with the quote.
I used that quote because I heard it on the radio yesterday and because it was far more demeaning than anything George Allen ever said.
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
November 13th, 2007 at 11:50 AM
I know it hurts Chestnut, but your beloved little leader was a drunk and a cokehead (I mean recreational drug consumer). He also was a failure at business and without his family’s wealth and power, would have been a bum on the street (or running a cheerleader camp).
As for remarkable accomplishments in Texas just take a look,
http://www.knowthecandidates.org/ktc/bushtexasranks.htm
He’s been a failure all his life, so why did people expect any difference as President!
November 13th, 2007 at 12:12 PM
Heights reaching a bit today with your Bush derangement syndrom? The coke story was proven to be false but who said facts ever had to be part of the liberal attack machine.
Deparate liberals at it once again.
The liberal movement within the democRat party will push too far soon and then the majority of Americans will no part of any “progressive” or liberal politician. 
Liberalism will die off with the most selfish generation ever in this countries history, the baby boomers. Just a could more decades and we should be rid of much of the aging ilk of liberals we have now.
November 13th, 2007 at 12:26 PM
Heights:
What planet are you living on. He had a drinking problem, but stopped that I will concede. But the charges on coke were never proven. He was a success in multiple businesses and had better grades in Yale than John K who needs to marry a rich widow to have a good lifestyle. You’re an example of the racist attitudes of Democrats accusing Republicans of stuff they don’t do, but give Democrats passes for things far worse.
And lets not forget the country never had to worry about a sex scandal while he was president unlike Mr. Clinton.
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
November 13th, 2007 at 1:55 PM
Pointing out a President’s past drinking problem is not having contempt.
And neither is it slandering someone when they beleive habits of an addict don’t necessarily mesh with the role of world leader.
Thank god we didn’t have to worry about a sex scandal. It almost ruined our country and our constitution.
November 13th, 2007 at 2:30 PM
I remember an occupant of the White House who never released vast portions of his health records because, allegedly, they contained documents relating to cocaine use. Care to name that president, Heights?
Heights, care to explain Al Gore’s academic record? He’s a grad school dropout. By Gore’s own admission, he spent a good deal of time in undergrad school smoking dope.
Bush earned a BA and an MBA.
November 13th, 2007 at 2:31 PM
Say Bob, I believe we had many reports of what a partier Mr. Clinton was as well. In fact I believe his famous line was he didn’t inhale?
Then the guy wastes how much in tax payer money for his lies about screwing ugly chicks in the white house. All the mean while not paying any attention to what was going on in the rest of the world. In fact I think the Clintons had to send someone to the national archives to make sure no one sees any documents from that time frame and have it show what a total boob Clinton really was.
Bob, you blind eye to anything your side does just proves you are yet another kool aid drinker.
Now go lay by your damn dish!
November 13th, 2007 at 2:35 PM
How is calling our President a drunk or a cokehead racist?
Are you implying Walter that some sort of minority represents drunks and cokeheads? I certainly am not. The last time I checked Bush is white, but please inform me if I am wrong.
Geez Louise, do the Republicans call any criticism racism?
It’s clear to me Bush did coke, he has never directly answered the question that has been posed to him numerous times. He basically admitted being high and drunk for a good chunk of his life.
Please show tell me about his success in business, all I can find is a record of failure and unethical conduct.
I am sure Bush has had a couple sex scandals here and there over his life in elected office, but I could care less. I would much rather choose that over the mess in Iraq! Let’s see some guy getting a blowjob or 3800+ dead, 20,000+ injured, hundreds of thousands fucked up for life in Iraq and not to mention the enormous toll it has taken on their families. Never mind the thousands of innocent dead civilians as well. I sure am glad we had that instead
November 13th, 2007 at 2:43 PM
Big Klown,
If you remember correctly it was the GOP who lead the investigations which wasted millions of taxpayers dollars to find nothing but a blue dress.
If you want to talk about secret documents what about Bush and Cheney who have had nearly every action in office hidden and sealed. History is going to throw them over a cliff when (or if) those documents are ever made public. The sheer amount of laws broken will astound everyone.
November 13th, 2007 at 2:53 PM
Hey Yamin:
it wasn’t a stain on a blue dress. It was the most powerful man in the country cheating to win a lawsuit. He was making witnesses tell lies. He was bribing witnesses by having one of his good friends get a high paying job for a witness who could embarass him to death, the Starr report showed that President Clinton got a letter which in effect was blackmailing him, he had his lawyer using a false affidavit to try to win the case, a judge held him in contempt for having lied in front of her, he engaged in volunatarily agreements to have his law license suspended and to settle a lawsuit which at one time a public apology would’ve stopped the lawsuit.
Hum… Yamin it seems like I did a lot of typing for something that you think is minor.
And what laws have Bush broken? Congress approved the war resolution. No documents have been hidden (only those that are right fully not have to be shown under excutive privillege). Since no laws have been broken by Bush your imagination is the only place where this law breaking is taking place.
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
November 13th, 2007 at 2:59 PM
“I am sure Bush has had a couple sex scandals here and there over his life in elected office”
Can you prove this?
November 13th, 2007 at 3:09 PM
Facts are not the liberal’s friend.
Well I guess if Heights says Bush did coke, well that should be good enough for all.
What an asshat!
Yamin, do you think those investigations would have been held if Clinton had not lied and just came out and admitted what he did. I can hardly wait until Hillary is the democRat candidate and she is asked about those lies she said the “vast right wing Conspiracy” was saying about her husband’s activities in the oval office. Oh I bet she was plenty pissed at Bill when he had to go on live TV and admit he had been lying the whole time.
Fucking stupid liberals will defend their own to the death no matter how in the wrong they were.
Too bad Clinton did not deal with terrorism when he was in office, maybe we would not need to be in Iraq now? Of course that would also mean than 9/11 was due to his failed administration.
November 13th, 2007 at 3:47 PM
Hey Bob, you stupid son of a bitch:
“Pointing out a President’s past drinking problem is not having contempt.”
No but calling an alcoholic a drunk, cokehead is contemptuous you idiot.
“And neither is it slandering someone when they believe habits of an addict don’t necessarily mesh with the role of world leader.”
Actually, it is slander when they are telling lies. First, the addict has, so far, kicked all those habits… Second, there’s nothing incongruent with a sober addict serving as a world leader.
Lying about their use of drugs is slander. The rest is just ignorant, asshole liberal opinion.
“Thank god we didn’t have to worry about a sex scandal. It almost ruined our country and our constitution.”
You’re right. Bill Clinton did lie to the country, and shit on the Constitution.
November 13th, 2007 at 3:52 PM
Secret documents… like the 500 FBI files Bill and Hillary Clinton kept on their political opponents?
Secret documents… like the ones Bill and Hillary Clinton’s adviser, Sandy Burgler, stole from the archives, to keep them from the 9/11 commission?
There are no secrete Bush/Cheney documents. And they have broken no laws… that’s just another deranged liberal fantasy.
Liberals… lazy, stupid thieves, all of them.
November 14th, 2007 at 9:31 AM
Well Walter you can live in whatever fantasy world you chose, but in the end Bill got a BJ and the Republicans wasted millions of taxpayers dollars to find that out. I don’t know too many people, other then right wing nutballs, that think that was a wise use of money.
This line is my favorite though,
“No documents have been hidden (only those that are right fully not have to be shown under excutive privillege).”
Yes, just about every damn document from his (and Cheney’s) entire time in office has not been released due to executive privilege! When (or if) these documents are ever released the American people will be shocked beyond belief at how this administration pissed all over the constitution. Just recently, we finally heard many of the Nixon tapes and found out he was an even bigger asshole, racist, bigot and law breaker then we thought before.
Bush has broken many laws in regards to allowing torture, rendition and allowing the illegal tapping of millions of American’s communications without any oversight by the court. If there is a Libertarin bone in your body you should be appalled at this.
To Big Klown, if Bush never did Coke, why not answer the question that has been posed to him many, many times? Most people view alcohol use and coke use quite differently, so you would think it would have been very helpful to his campaign to clear the air and seperate the two if he had not used. It’s clear, he did and would be nailed for it later, if he said he had not used. People direct me to a quote from Bush where he says he never used coke?
November 14th, 2007 at 9:55 AM
Yamin:
Why ignore the facts:
* I’ve read the Starr report I’ve seen the letter which I refer to as the blackmail letter?
Are you saying that letter never existed?
* Are you saying that report that the judge held Bill in contempt of court was fantasy?
* Are you saying that Bill’s own lawyer who was worried about the possibility of losing his
own legal license because he introduced false evidence which the Starr Report showed Bill knew was false when presented was fantasy?
* Yemin you’re the one living in the fantasy world until you rebut all of those point by point!
* Yemin when you talk about every document are you referring to Chenny’s energy task force?
groups wanting those documents public took that all the way to the Supreme Court and lost. If you’re so concerned about secret documents why don’t you get Hillary to make public all the health records first (which technically because she wasn’t an official member of the executive doesn’t have the same privilegge). So Yemin once again it’s fantasy for you to be talking about secret documents.
Yemin if you’re calling your sister in Minneapolis your phonecall won’t be tapped and was never tapped. On the other hand if you make an overseas phonecall to a suspected terrorist that call will get tapped and rightly so. By the way the Clintons did what you were talking when Bill was President.
As for torture this point doesn’t go over well with liberals let alone some Republicans, but for these terrorists to be covered by those treaties they have to be part of a regular military for an established country. Maybe you can tell me their names, rank, serial numbers, and the country they are a member of the military of.
The reports on coke have been proven false. He has aired it and said the charge was false.
So Yemin come out of your fantasy world so we can have a real debate.
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
November 14th, 2007 at 9:58 AM
Good lord, just what color is the sky in your world Yamin??
it appears you have solid prof and knowlege of what goes on in the white house from your commando keyboard.
Another liberal who found Daily Kos to cut and paste his views from.
November 14th, 2007 at 10:27 AM
BK,
Don’t give him so much credit. I doubt he even knows how to cut and paste… my guess is, he believes the bullshit he types.
… which makes him certifiably stupid.
November 14th, 2007 at 10:34 AM
Chestnut:
If Yamin wasn’t on Minnesota Democrats Exposed I’ll say Yamin was worried that his computer was being tapped for info also so he wouldn’t dare cut and paste. Opps. I just probably put that thought into Yamin’s head.
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
November 14th, 2007 at 1:34 PM
Walter in the end what was accomplished? Millions of taxpayer dollars were wasted to find out Bill got a BJ. No impeachment, no nothing, most people agree it was a complete waste of money and time. But as we know the GOP doesn’t care about the taxpayers money, just look at how they lost billions in Iraq and spent like drunken sailors when they controlled Congress.
Cheney’s energy task force is a perfect example of how corrupt this administration is. As I mentioned before, unfortunately we will have to wait years and years to learn the truth.
As for the CIA, NSA, FBI, you and I have no idea what they can do. From what I have read that has been uncovered, sometimes from ex-agents and sometimes by accident, it is a disgrace to our constitution. They most certianly have listened to calls and read emails from Americans that have no link to terror and are not even communicating to someone outside the country. They also have a capability to read emails and listen to calls throughout the world, but that’s not my point.
As for torture (such as water boarding) it most certainly is unethical and illegal. It’s a disgrace to any military veteran and any American that our country is practicing this crap. We cannot use the methods of the terrorists to win the “war on terror” or any other war for that matter.
Back to coke, show me a quote from Bush saying he has never done coke? You can’t! Looking at how he speaks and makes his decisions, it’s quite easy to see the damage of his past addictions.
November 14th, 2007 at 2:29 PM
Yasmin:
I should warn you during the Clinton Adminstration a special raiding force was created to raid the homes of innocent American families. It made it’s first public appearance when they raided a Florida house, kidnapped a six year old boy which according to US law was legally suppose to have permanent legal residence status, and sent him away to a foreign country. Maybe that force needs to make a public appearance again since you probably thinks President Bush uses them all the time.
If you want to say I should care President Bush broke the law you’re not going to convert me by ignoring the illegal acts of the clinton adminstration. Keep in mind the sole reason why we never got an independent counsel on campaign finance even though the statue calls for it in a case where a crime “might” have been committed was Janet Reno kept saying that there was no crime committed even though the lawyer in the Justice Department who was responsible for reasearching it for her said the standard had been easily meant. I don’t hear you crying about that corruption. Or the Lincoln bedroom being sold! Or trade being taken away from the State Department so businesses that couldn’t make deals with China could make their deals.
Your cries about corruption are hollow if you don’t care about Clinton.
What was accomplished was a lesson was sent to future President’s to obey and respect the law something which this President Bush is doing though you disagreed.
What was accomplished was because the Democrats refused to say Clinton was guilty and remove him from office it helped George Bush get elected President in 2000. You hate Bush being elected blame the Democrats who dug in their heels and refused to think it was problem. The 2000 election was so close I personally believe if the Democrats had the guts to have impeached president Clinton Gore would’ve been elected!
If you care about taxpayers money being wasted why not complain about everything that President Clinton did to string this out and drive up the costs. For example, he made a pointless appeal to the United States Supreme Court that because as President he couldn’t have a private lawsuit dealt with until he had left office (hint it was to keep the Jones lawsuit off the news until after the 1996 Presidential election). The court ruled 9-0 against Clinton on that by the way!
The Cheney Energy task force was Cheney inviting groups from all over and offering opinions. When this story broke a reporter (see the truth was already out for people who did their work) did a study some trade group for example had made like 15 proposals got 2 items into it. A green group leader who thought his request for imput was a joke sent a copy of a paper they had on their website. Eight of their recommendations made the bill. Furthermore Yasmin and this is a point you overlook in your cries of corruption it formed a proposal which Congress had the right to change or outright reject. Congress made several changes to the proposal. Cheney was powerless (unlike a country like Iraq under Hussein) to make those changes for the businesses to make them money. So Yasmin no matter how you cry there is no corruption there! If this is your best example of corruption you have proved my case that there isn’t the corruption you complain about.
Yasmin in your fantasy world the only times they can listen to domestic calls are by court order. And than it will be targeted to drug dealers (or are you saying they have a right to sell drugs with no effort by law enofrcement to catch them), organized crime (oh you want organize crime to do horrible things to people). the rest is silly fantasy put out by the parnoid left!!! That famous wiretapping program you hear about is oversea telephone calls. Like I said in an earlier post if you call your sister in Minneapolis this program won’t monitor your telephone call!! If you should call your unfriendly terrorist in Iraq that is busy trying to kill US Soldiers and civilians that call will be monitored.
Before I forget the reason why those terrorists cut off heads (I haven’t heard the US doing that) is because that must be ethical behavior according to you. Yasmin our troops are put through torture training (they get tortured more than the prisoners in Cuba) just because they will run into people who don’t practice any ethics. We have waterboarded something like three people and one of them revealed glops of information since he was very involved in 9-11 planning and execution. Information which has helped to stop future terrorist attacks.
In your ethical world it’s okay for a terrorist to come to the US, plan their attacks with no harrassment from law enforcement, execute an attack like 9-11 killing thousands of people. No Yasmin your average rational person will say try to stop the attack!
Yasmin I have never taken Coke and I will misprounce words once in awhile so that last paragraph is a joke.
So Yasmin once again when are going to leave your fantasy land?
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
November 14th, 2007 at 2:45 PM
Yamin:
Sorry for misspelling your name. I had a thought in my head there was an “S” in it and used it. Simple mistake or do you think I’ve taken Coke!
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
November 16th, 2007 at 12:01 PM
Where or where is Yamin today? Where or where can he be?
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN