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THE FIRST-EVER MINNESOTA DEMOCRATS EXPOSED “MAN NOT IN THE ARENA” AWARD GOES TO…
By Michael B. Brodkorb | January 4, 2008
Drew Emmer of the Wright County Republican. By his own admission, Drew did nothing to help out with the Republican effort in the SD 25 special election but he wasted no time this morning pointing out how everyone else stumbled.
The Minnesota Democrats Exposed Man Not In The Arena Award gets it's name from the famous speech given by Theodore Roosevelt. Speaking at the Sorbonne in 1910, Roosevelt said:
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Drew, I consider you a friend and I tip my hat to you. You did nothing to help out with the SD 25 special election, yet by quickly pointing out this morning how everyone else stumbled, you win the first-ever Minnesota Democrats Exposed Man Not In The Arena Award.
Drew's prize is the opportunity to come on tomorrow's radio show and tell the listeners of NARN "The Final Word" how we all could have done a better job. The number is (651) 289-4488 and I look forward to Drew's collecting his prize anytime after 3:45 p.m. Congrats Drew!
UPDATE: My NARN colleague (and friend) Mitch Berg wins "honorable mention" by regurgitating Drew's post and adding his own "analysis" on why the Republican effort came up short in SD 25. I'll will be asking Mitch to stay in the studio tomorrow (NARN II ends right before NARN III begins) to claim his "honorable mention" award. Congrats Mitch!
Topics: Drew Emmer, Mitch Berg | 96 Comments »
96 Responses to “THE FIRST-EVER MINNESOTA DEMOCRATS EXPOSED “MAN NOT IN THE ARENA” AWARD GOES TO…”
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January 4th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
[...] All this was too much for the big fish of Republican bloggers – Michael Brodkorb of MDE. Brodkorb lashed out at Emmer and also slammed conservative blogger Mitch Berg. Drew, I tip my hat to you. You did nothing to help out with the SD 25 special election, yet by quickly pointing out this morning how everyone else stumbled, you win the first-ever Minnesota Democrats Exposed Man Not In The Arena Award. [...]
January 4th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Michael-
So you’re asking people to get out and work phones, put up signs door knock for someone simply because they have an “R” behind their name even if they support legislation like the DREAM act?
Just curious- how did the endorsement process work down there- was there more than one GOP candidate interested? Did the party just make sure Cox got the rubber stamp? We’ve got to start energizing people by having a debate of ideas at the endorsement level. Doesn’t seem to be happening.
We’ve got to learn from our losses- not point fingers at fellow volunteers and activists.
January 4th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Your point is taken Michael, but a bit harsh on Drew. I wonder when the divine right of political pontification was determinant on campaign activity.
While it might be fun to have a Golden Rule that would silence all those not toiling in the field, I think we both know that the arm chair experts will always outnumber the worker bees. Generally speaking my friend Drew falls into the category of the latter so go easy on him. Good to see the New Year brought out the Brodkorb charm!
Rory
January 4th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
I’d expect to also claim a bit on “Honorable Mention” and I would proudly display my award.
When you have a RINO like Cox, you have a loser in waiting. He was a member of the GOP House team that hosed Hennepin County, and I would expect that the politically-astute voters in a special election would remember that.
Also, he has supported raising the gas tax, smoking taxes (fees, according to Timmy), and is an enviro-tree-hugger.
I love ya, Mike. But you should not have bothered with this Cox clown, just based on his record alone.
January 4th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
The Republican Party of MN is long overdue for some infighting—in my opinion.
For entirely too long, voters have sat idly by and watched as candidate after candidate is endorsed and defeated—for any number of reasons.
In my view, it harkens back to the lack of definition of what it really means to be a Republican (or “Conservative,” if you prefer) in this state.
I understand the argument that says: “We endorsed him because of name recognition and his voting record tends to fit the district.”
I just don’t agree with it.
I would rather stand by conservative principles that emphasizes and funds the absolute basic functions of government.
These principles are important to many voters in this state and when they are ignored, and thrown under the bus in the name of “fitting the district,” I decide to stay home and reserve my vote and support for a candidate who best represents my views.
I was also presented with the opportunity to volunteer for Ray Cox’s campaign and I chose not to.
The reason? To be perfectly honest, I have lots of things I like to do in my spare time and volunteering for a campaign for someone who I certainly wouldn’t vote for is NOT on top of the list.
Points were raised about the SD 25 endorsing process and concerns were levied about potential conservatives that felt excluded from the process.
I wasn’t there and I couldn’t tell you what exactly is so damn compelling about Ray Cox to begin win.
**Also**
I heard that Ray Cox was quoted as saying: “Northfield is a tough place for a fiscal conservative.”
Did he really say this?
If Ray Cox had been characterizing himself as a fiscal conservative, he lost the race well before yesterday.
The very notion that there is anything genuinely “conservative” about Ray Cox is laughable at best.
January 4th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
GOP Optimist:
Bravo. But where were you, over the last couple weeks, when I was getting lashed by the GOP Kool-Aid drinkers around here?
January 4th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
You idiots don’t seem to understand what political parties do. They try to win elections. Local folks pick their candidates, as they did, and the party then lends its election aparatus to the effort. It’s not up to Drew Emmer or anyone else to pick a candidate for Northfield anymore than Drew Emmer would want Northfield picking a candidate for wherever he lives.
The general election is not the place for party infighting. That’s what primaries are for. Witness: The presidential race. Once that’s over, you have a choice. You can be a whine baby and take your ball and go home. Or, you can do the right thing and support the party, even if your guy isn’t on the ticket.
I wonder if they’ll do the same next year when the House is in danger of losing the veto override for real.
January 4th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Idiots? Whine like a baby? Wow- condescending much? You make an assumption that none of us posting here have worked our butts off for and/or given money to Republicans in the past.
My question was this- for SD 25 leadership- was there a formal endorsement process? Was everyone allowed in who wanted to run and then hammered with questions about their beliefs, platform and qualifications? Answer the simple question- Why are you a Republican? Provide examples of legislation would you support that adhere to our platform? Provide examples of legislation you wouldn’t support? Make them answer these questions in a very public way. Hold candidates to some principals throughout the process that stick while they’re in office. Most people respond to principals- whether they be conservative or liberal. They don’t respond to political parties.
Like I said- let’s learn from our mistakes so we can indeed WIN elections.
January 4th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Without question Ray Cox isn’t as conservative as I might prefer, but he’s a good man and was a fine state represenative. He did an excellent job representing his constituents and his district. In addition he was a loyal member of the Republican Team.
He got elected twice in an area when others couldn’t, and the fact is you don’t get to govern if you don’t win! Ray proved he could.
Instead of lounging around in your jammies and getting shrill and preachy about RINOs and litmus testing maybe some people should get out of the lazy boy and pound some pavement for the Republican Cause! I guarantee a Big Tent in the Majority is a lot more fun than a Pup Tent in the Minority. On to November!
January 4th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Hey Loris,
The decision making process and the criteria that the MN GOP Party is using is flawed.
This flawed mechanism (or whatever they’re using) gave loyal SD 25 Republicans a candidate the voted to bypass voters in regards to the Twins stadium, co-sponsored the DREAM Act and scores lower than some DFL’rs on a legislative scorecard.
More conservative potential candidates were interested in running. I know one was from the Henderson area and he offered a far more conservative platform than Cox had.
Loris–real, honest conservative principles are important to folks in this state that have voted for conservative candidates, just as DFL voters want someone who they can count on to vote their way.
They want the candidate to vote how they’re advertising themselves, they’re not voting for the GOP party to do it themselves.
Cox decided to run as a Republican.
His voting record on economic issues like spending and capital investments is abysmal. He openly embraces Global Warming rhetoric, he voted to spend public tax dollars on a professional sports stadium and seems to believe that offering in-state tuition to children of illegal immigrants is acceptable to the conservative base that he desparately needed to turn out for him.
They didn’t. He lost. He lost badly.
If you still care to assess the “idiot” label to me—well, okay.
But. If the RNC and the MN GOP think that nominating moderate goofballs with suspect records that vote WITH Democrats around 50% of the time is the way to go in general election strategies, I will gladly stay at home.
[Believe me folks, if Guiliani can't keep one promise to at least 1 of his wives, he won't be keeping any promises to the American people.]
Principles don’t mean much if you don’t stick bythem in times of inconvenience.
So go ahead Loris and point the finger at who YOU really think deserves the blame. There are people like Brodkorb and myself who have put in our time around the Capitol and understand the B/S that is happening within the rank-and-file of the House and Senate.
The difference is:
When the music stops and everyone looks around, it won’t be folks like Berg, Emmer or I that are left standing without a chair.
Run moderates….alienate the base.
Ray Cox is the proof.
January 4th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
With his usual panache and among friends, Michael is making a fundamentally important point, similar to one I’ve made many times at truthvmachine: Our side has to get back to work.
Politics is an exercise in coalition building. Folks need to get it through their heads that this is a base expansion election, not a base motivation election. Our base has shrunk to the point where there’s not much of anyone left.
This whole “i’m too busy” “this candidate isn’t perfect” nonsense needs to end if we have any hope of winning elections and, more importantly, governing from the Right.
I ask as a general question: Who out there has actually seen a perfect candidate? Most all of ‘em have flaws, personal, philosophical, stylistic, etc. Perfect = enemy of good.
Back in the early days of our Congressional majority back in 1995, after 3 or 4 Democrats switched parties and became Republicans, the Dem Whip, David Bonior, lashed out and said something like “maybe what we need in the Democrat caucus is 175 ideologically consistent members.”
In other words, he wanted to be a pure, permanent minority party. As for me, no thanks. I’d rather have a majority with some differences.
We should all reflect on yesterday: Democrats in Iowa drew almost twice as many caucus attendees as Republicans. The Democrats now have a veto-proof majority in the MN Senate. Is this the world you want to live in? If not, what are you going to DO about it?
January 4th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
11th commandment, Michael.
The errors drew pointed out are valid, and without criticism we cannot learn. Let’s take Drew’s criticism as constructive and not let infighting ruin our march to November.
January 4th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Who made you chair of the GOP Brodkorb? Just wondering…
January 4th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Pat,
You’re right. Perfect is the enemy of good. And I’d MUCH rather have had Ray Cox in the Senate than Dahle.
But nobody’s demanding perfect candidates; indeed, I’m too pragmatic for some of my conservative friends.
Still, for some of us, the GOP – at least in some of the districts, and at the state level – seems to be light on vision – especially a vision that’d get the non-base voter to come out for us. And unless there’s something in the party bylaws that says “peasants shall shut up and do as they’re told” (commonly called “CD4’s Unwritten First Law”), I think we’re allowed to comment on it, right?
Michael,
See you tomorrow – especially if the award comes with a cash honorarium.
MNPublius Fratboys:
It’s not a “circular firing squad”, it’s grownups discussing a disagreement. We do that in our party. Don’t let it confuse or frighten you.
January 4th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Instead of your award why don’t we just stand in a line and slap them in the face until they start doing some Republicans some good?
January 4th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
THe MNGOP doesn’t nominate local candidates. Local voters do. They said they wanted Cox.
Pat is right. We can either pursue ideological purity and see ourselves mired in political irrelevancy (aka Senate Republicans in St. Paul) or accept that we may not agree on everything, but it’s still a lot better than being mired in political irrelevancy.
Like Rory said, you can’t govern if you don’t win. Stick with the our way or the highway attitude and you’re going to see what it’s like to not be able to govern in 2009, when you have 30 house Republicans.
January 4th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
This Emmer guy sounds like a real dink. Let’s go beat him up. He obviously hasn’t done boo for the republican party or for the conservative movement. Teddy Roosevelt would smack him down something fierce.
January 4th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
I don’t use the word RINO and I’m not looking for purists, I’m looking for the best fit for a seat that adheres to the major principals of the Republican platform.
You have to have an open formalized endorsement process- get rid of the fear of change and try to find as many qualified candidates to chose from. Welcome new people, welcome their supporters, have a fair and honest process and then all come together and support the winner. I thought that was how it was supposed to work.
I am not seeing this happen on a local level and that could be improved with some guidance from the top level, but I don’t see that happening either. Chicken/Egg
2008 not looking good- but we will always win with our ideas in the long run.
January 4th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
I got the call from the MNRNC HQ to make phone calls for Cox. So I looked up Cox and did some research, what I found was another Norm Coleman and Jim Ramstad. It was the holidays so I had better things to do than make phone calls for another RINO.
The poster above is correct Brodkorb, you are too willing to prostitute yourself for anyone with an (R) behind their name. Your fawning all over Norm Coleman is nauseating, man, have some principles. And I normally agree with you! But I liked Drew’s possession of principles.
January 4th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Let’s all take a deep breath.
I will support anyone who’s with me on 80% of the issues, give or take. I don’t *like* the term RINO, but I use it, because it’s nice ‘n convenient.
From what I’ve read, Cox rated about a 26/100 from the Taxpayers League. I’m not looking for purity – I mean, I support Pawlenty and Coleman and might even give McCain another look, here – but I AM looking for basic agreement on the things that separate the Good Guys from the Bad Guys (of both parties): spending, security, smaller government. Did Cox stack up?
Also – whomever said the people of the district chose him; are you sure? I mean, I get the impression that the District leadership anointed Cox over the protests of people who wanted someone further to the right. I wasn’t there (that’s right, its’ true), but that is identical to the complaint I have about the CD4GOP – the arena I AM in.
As to the “man in the arena” bit, Michael – that’s perilously close to the “chicken hawk” slur that we all get from lesser minds. Tread lightly. I wasn’t “the man in the area” on the Titanic, but I get to say I woulda taken a different boat.
January 4th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
We have a strong team and we sure don’t need to beat up on our best people. We need to go back to the platform. For example Marty Siefert the House minority leader took the lead on healthcare borrowing from Drew’s research at
minnesotamajority.org. That’s all good. But the state Democrats are truly rudderless – some want single payer some don’t; some want to go it alone some insist national healthcare reform is the only way. Few Republicans are even noting
this rift between labor, big government socialists and others in the MN DFL. It is
a tremendous Republican advantage and opportunity to expound on free enterprise,
private sector (as my Greek brother in law pointed out it is called laissez faire
in europe) healthcare and win over people.
January 4th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Mitch, the “man in the arena” award is no bit. It is an apt description of people like yourself and Drew who did nothing to help out with the Republican effort in SD 25, yet you have time today to point out how the people who were actually in the arena helping out with the effort stumbled.
I suggest you “tread lightly” next time you decided to poo-poo the efforts of harding working Republicans who spent time out in the cold helping out your party.
You got time to complain, but you don’t have time to help with the effort? I say next time you complain AND help out.
I’m spot on with my “man in the arena” award. Spot on.
January 4th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
I’ve done mroe than I care to admit to on behalf of Republican candidates. Some were less conservative than I like, some more. I don’t care that much, though, because I know I’ll take any of them over the alternative. It’s better to me to have a Ray Cox on my side 26/100 times than Kevin Dahle 0/100.
January 4th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Someone above wrote that Ray Cox won in a House district where other Republicans could not get elected. This isn’t entirely accurate. The House district was controlled by Republicans for six terms.
Although there had been some boundary changes caused by redistricting, Republican John Tuma had held that area from 1995 before retiring in 2002; Cox then served two terms.
January 4th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
It almost seems as if Drew had his post written well before the election was over. It’d be nice for once — just once — if Drew, Mitch, and the rest of the political geniuses would offer some insight into to how to win elections rather than simply bitch about losing them.
Better yet, I wish people like Drew and Mitch would shut their silly blogs and do some actual work to get Republicans elected rather than just complain about those who are doing the work. The problem with that idea is that they would actually have to put their sad, little reputations on the line, which they’re too cowardly and lazy to do.
The worst thing that could happen to people like Drew and Mitch would be if Republicans won. Then they’d have nothing to complain about and no “insight” to offer. They have no purpose in life if they can’t try to sound smarter than everyone else and say “I told you so.”
The Party is in need of volunteers, not bloggers. If Drew and Mitch don’t have time to do both then I wish they’d quit blogging and start doing some real work to get Republicans elected.
January 4th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Come on Brodkorb. You spent half a day down there doorknocking and, all of a sudden, anyone who you didn’t see down there is the downfall of the Republican Party? I’m betting the pair you’re criticizing is active in the Party, they probably make monetary donations to the Party and to candidates, and support many, many Party endorsed candidates. They have every right to criticize implementation in the field. Or maybe it’s just that, as someone in the field, the comments hit a little close to home…
January 4th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
You all talk about how we can only get behind real conservatives but look at who the Mn Senate lost in 2006 – all the real conservatives. What was left with the exception of a few was a very moderate to liberal group.
January 4th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
I spoke to several people who were at the endorsing convention for SD 25. Cox was endorsed on the first ballot — can anyone here tell me how the endorsement was unfair?
Glen Gruenhagen (sp?) was the other candidate and he has little support. If the locals were so upset with Ray, they should have rallied around Glen or another candidate.
As far as I know, the convention calls were sent out in plenty of time, procedures were followed, etc.
Please fill us in as to what exactly was unfair about the endorsement?
January 4th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Please people, learn to lose with some grace.
January 4th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Okay folks we’re having a few interesting things going on in this debate.
One, if we endorse conservative candidates we have an obligation to support them all out and help them win. No one will stick their necks out like Michelle Bachmann has to run let alone vote our way. Part of our problem is that we didn’t have a Bachmann like candidate worth investing in this race.
Two, we as Republicans have to start explaining why our policies are different and an improvement. I was having a running debate with HCDFL about taxes and spending on another post. He was trying to show that he and hence Democrats were morally supperior because he wanted to give student aide along with a bunch of other spending. The thought of maybe trying to hold the universities accountable for controlling their costs to keep tuition down apparently doesn’t have to apply. If you force the state unversities to control their costs maybe tuition can be cut instead of being increased.
Three, if a leader seems to be differing on an issue which you care about you have to try to point them in the right direction. Just being silent won’t work. Yes I voted for Tim, but I don’t like him trying to govern like Al Gore when it comes to the envirornment. I finally broke down and complained. If we complain to them loud we get results. Look at what happened with Harriet Miers. It looked like she might be a shaky vote on the Supreme Court. We complained and got Harriet to voluntary withdrew her nomination. Our reward was we got a rock solid conservative Justice for the Supreme Court. Now if we can get just one more.
Four, lets be greatful this happened before the precient cacuses. I think we now know we have to try reclaim the party with conservative values.
I think this is a start. Does anybody else in this running debate have ideas what we can do to look to the future and reclaim our party.
One reason the Democrats are flushed with money and confidence right now is that they have gotten their candidates to be running on their values (get of Iraq, national health care, etc) and they understand they need a Democrat to be President to get their values implemented.
What do you think folks?
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
January 4th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
I wish people like Drew and Mitch would shut their silly blogs and do some actual work to get Republicans elected rather than just complain
Right on gld and right on Brodkorb, and the man-not-in-the-arena slam is apt. These do-nothings who sit on their loathsome behinds furitively typing out their whiny woes while never attempting to actually help out in any pragmatic way are contemptible. And no Berg, telling people to tune in to your half-assed radio show doesn’t count as “doing something.” Lead, fight or get out of the way, but if all you can do is bitch about those in the trenches then put a sock in it.
January 4th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Shozzy and Mini Moderate….not only did SD25 follow LEGAL endorsing proceedures, there was a PRIMARY ELECTION on December 18. Glen had two opportunities to try to “unseat” Ray and was unsuccessfull both times. Anyone who says that this was “unfair” or done “in secret” does not know what they are talking about.
LL
January 4th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
God, I love this. You people are like sharks with too much much chum in the water. One of you shows a perceived weakness, and you eat your own.
How about becoming Americans rather than republicans or democrats? How about thinking outside your party line to work for a better country rather than what’s best for your putrid little country club?
You’re all going down this year….every last one of you. It’s a new day, thank God!
January 4th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
TWilliams – I do not know Mitch, but I can tell you Drew has done a tremendous job helping Republicans. I think his comments were excellent and right on.
January 4th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
What I find amusing is that people reading this blog believe issues or ideas win elections.
January 4th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
I suggest you “tread lightly†next time you decided to poo-poo the efforts of harding working Republicans
Objection. Statement relies on facts not in evidence.
I’m not “poo-poo”ing anyone’s efforts. Far from it. Let’s try to stay on subject, shall we? As someone who votes for even lame Republicans on principle, and who works within the district that I ahem, live in (because I don’t do politics for a living, and have to mix it with a day job and raising a couple of kids), and has his own arenas to be in, your statement is highly inapt.
Unless you going to change your blog’s name to “Eagan Democrats Exposed?”
And I’m not saying that Cox was nominated unfairly. I AM saying that I worry that the GOP currently isn’t focusing on a message that resonates outside of Republican circles. I’ve criticized my own district (state and congressional) over this.
That’s OK, right, Michael? I mean, SD66 and CD4 is my “arena”, so by your leave I may speak, m’lord?
January 4th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
You’re all going down this year…
Who let Larry Craig in?
January 4th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Mitch, I’ll explain it again.
The “man in the arena” is an apt description of people like yourself and Drew who did nothing to help out with the Republican effort in SD 25, yet you have time today to point out how the people who were actually in the arena (in SD 25) helping out with the effort stumbled.
The arena = SD 25.
January 4th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
I thought that I logged into MDE, but suddenly I’m reading interesting commentary about state politics instead of Franken, Coleman, Coleman, Franken, Coleman, Franken, Franken, Franken, Franken, Coleman, Franken, Coleman.
January 4th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Emmer was dead-on accurate. We are going to continue to get our asses handed to us if we don’t stop being STUPID. Look at the returns in that district over the years. When have we ever lost by THIRTEEN F*ING points there? If this is a trend, we are in very deep shit come November.
January 4th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
As a base-Republican that lives in the sixth CD the last person I want to read a lecture from about conservatives values is AAA/Andy Aplikowski.
Remember this?
“Oh my. You are kidding. That may win over the Zombies in this room, (6th District Republican Delegates and Alternates) but swing voters it will not.“ Andy Aplikowski, Residual Forces
I’m not a zombie. But according to AAA, I am. This guy has some nerve to claim he’s a conservative voice on anything.
January 5th, 2008 at 12:57 am
Interesting debate. I’m torn. On one hand you can’t run the poster child platform conservative candidate for every race. Christ, we are already basically locked out of too many races across the state.(major cities, iron range, college towns etc.) Running Seifert, Emmer, Krinkie types in some districts would be a total waste. Like it or not the liberal kool aid factory has a mass distribution machine that’s been in place for so long alot of people march like those kids in the Pink Floyd video who turn into hamburger on their way to the polls. Vote D… even if it’s a snowman some kid is building as I enter the booth… No amount of common sense can break into the fog they currently have in some areas. The only thing we can do in those areas is keep pointing out what they are voting for. IE, Chris Coleman and the Communist City Council in St. Paul’s recent public hearing on taxes. In areas that are in play, we need to put up the best available option for victory. I’m not saying Cox was it but who am I to say he wasn’t?
On the other hand, you really can’t blame Republican supporters for not getting overly excited over Republicans who don’t act like Republicans. Mike Huckabee just won Iowa caucus. I don’t like the Huckster. I like Chuck Norris jokes, but not enough to change my mind. To me he is a democrat who happens to be pro-life. When push comes to shove, I’d hold my nose and vote for his losing cause if he gets the nom. But I wouldn’t be happy about it.
As for all this debate, MDE is right to call out Berg and Drew and others for sitting on the sidelines and then criticizing something people took the time and effort in. We need foot soldiers. Even for those Rs who are moderate. But I’m not about to go hating on people who share the same vision the foot soldiers have and I sure as hell am not going to criticize them for helping us get conservative voices out there on blogs and radio. That’s crazy!
If there is anything we lack it is the ability to break through the fog that the Dems have created. We have to get through to the people who just don’t really like or care or pay attention to politics but still vote. The ones who listen to the buzz lines. “Oh, this Democrat wants to give my kid a thousand dollars at birth or this democrat wants to give a billion dollars to education or this democrat who is going to save us from the plague of global warming… Obviously the money will get results… Sounds nice, I’ll pick that one…” We actually have to work at it. It’s hard to break through to the unengaged voter when we deal with common sense and the other side deals with emotional appeal and empty rhetoric.
Here is the Dem game plan: Tell people how horrible everything is, promise to spend money to solve it, spend it, and repeat. We need to do a better job highlighing the “horrible” part, because it’s never as bad as they say it is. And then we need to highlight the “solve it” part. Because it’s never solved… You would think our state would have produced a fleet of Einsteins by now the way Edu spending has gone up. Nonetheless, many voters still think our schools are $hit… It doesn’t add up. Too many voters don’t pay attention. We need to break through the fog.
We need foot soldiers knocking on doors as much as we need bloggers trying to break through the fog. We need the best candidates we can get who can appeal to both us politico junkies and those who might read a headline here and there but still vote. We might have to hold our noses sometimes. People need to get off their high horses though and stop thinking litmus test Republicans should be candidates or bust. That would only hurt us. It would be nice but it’s not realistic.
I’ve said entirely too much and I’m only faking that I care. But tell me how I’m not RIGHT!
January 5th, 2008 at 1:21 am
The shoe fits for these awards, Michael. I can’t imagine Cox’s opponent doing better – since he lost badly in the primary. I think the candidate could have been working harder than he did. All the volunteers in the world don’t help if the candidate isn’t working his or her hardest for the seat – when it’s a contested seat.
January 5th, 2008 at 1:46 am
I think the problem is that our messengers are lacking the ability to effectively communicate “The Message”. We need to change our delivery and the way we frame the debate, rather than change our positions/beliefs. And look no further than Michele Bachmann. She’s conservative and proudly proclaims it! How can we work for candidates if were not proud of them???
January 5th, 2008 at 1:51 am
Also,
I agree with Brodkorp on principle, in that we should be involved in the arena First and criticize from the arm chairs Second. I did send Cox a contribution but like other fellow conservatives, I probably could have done more to help his candidacy. This can be a lesson learned for both schools of thought!
January 5th, 2008 at 1:55 am
Right is RIGHT is right on. 50% of the state biennium for education may not be equalled by any other state. That’s why they’re all coming HERE to MN. It’s the welfare principle.
Instead of rising crime the result is a baseline yuppy self-righteous nimcompoopism. The people in MN who moved here for the education have HIGH expectations and contribute to the fog that covers and hinders governance.
Walter Hanson
I agree on 1 2 and 3.
We will never get another Bachmann. That was a God-send.
I like your argument on education. Please post more.
Dumbster
“What I find amusing is that people reading this blog believe issues or ideas win elections.”
A candidate needs legwork but I want to talk about strategy and how Republicans use Drew’s work.
Let me drive home my point from above if it’s not clear. The following criticism may not have been a factor in the SD25 race but we should all
recognize the game is now changed with the veto-proof senate and I suggest the following is appropriate at this time.
Republicans CAN highlight and criticize Democrats in a way that progresses DEMOCRAT’s own thinking on a topic sometimes (identifying their rifts for them etc). Why? Because undecided voters see that and may give Republicans credit for it.
In healthcare and perhaps other complex topics that students typically tackle we can risk engaging in a bit of dialogue with Democrats even if it helps them define their ideas more, because we are ultimately in the right.
Drew Emmer is spot on on healthcare.
Drew knows the art of constructively criticizing Democrats which makes Republicans look good while perhaps helping only the more intelligent Democrats refine their thinking. This is not giving the opposition ammo. It is where the process works for the good of all.
Ultimately the Democrats may decide on single payer and bring in all the Democrats that Republicans were able to soften on the topic up to now. But even if that happens we can still trust the voters will reject the big government socialist high tax idea that is single payer, even if it is articulated well by the Democrats thanks to some Republicans. Perhaps we can more depend on the Single Payer big government idea going down in flames if it IS articulated well by the Democrats. Meanwhile let’s stake out the free market position, define the small government argument as our own (Republican), and let voters know why making a principled, seemingly hostile (to some Democrats), stand on this important issue benefits everybody.
All this doesn’t detract from MDE or from the time and effort of grass roots volunteers.
Their work is to be commended and had nothing to do with the SD25 defeat. There were many factors, mostly with the candidate.
January 5th, 2008 at 9:30 am
My starting point, in this debate, is Emmer’s post.
His headline is “Outsmarted, Outflanked, Outfought.” Let’s take each one seratim. (That’s one at a time for those of you out in Rio Linda.)
“Outsmarted”: Emmer’s point, as I read it, is that the DFL’s current campaign tactics are “smarter” than the GOP’s. Prior to the 2006 election, DFLers had bemoaned that the GOP was superior in its get-out-the-vote efforts. Emmer’s point, as I read it, is that the DFL appeared to learn from that and is now using better, “smarter” campaign tactics. Can MDE dispute that? Moreover, even if Emmer had spent every waking minute in Northfield last week, he would have been using the less smart, for lack of a better term, GOP tactics. Kind of like Polish soldiers on horseback going against German tanks. Can MDE dispute that?
“Outflanked”: I’m not sure I get Emmer’s point on this one. Does he mean that the DFL candidate ran to the right of Cox and picked up votes that Cox should have got? As for his contention that the conservative base did not come up for Cox, I’ll leave that to the stat wonks out there to analyze that question.
“Outfought”: I’m a BPOU chair. I got a call to help from the state party to help out on that campaign. I didn’t help out, thinking (wrongly at that) Cox was a sure winner. In my case, that prove’s Emmer point.
My ending point is this: Emmer is right for the most part. Even if he had, as I said, worked night and day for Cox, the results would have been the same. The DFL, right now, has the better campaign (read “smarter”) tactics. The question, then, is whether the GOP is going to use our 2002 playbook or audible at the line to meet what the DFL is now coming up with.
January 5th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Oops….
Let me clarify that I’m not a BPOU chair in that district, but in the metro area instead.
January 5th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Walter:
Your right why should educators be paid for what they contribute back to society, CEO’s, deserve their millions, after all they have created a record number of jobs, created an affordable health care system, keep gas prices low, NOT.
You just don’t seem to understand or care that corporations have stayed true to their mantra profits first and worker benefit from what’s left.
After labor’s share of GDP reached a peak in 2001 ( I know and remember 9/11, and even if I would forget Rudy reminds me with every stump speech), labors share of GDP has fallen 4% the lowest level since 1966, and corporate profits have increase 4% of GDP, their highest since 1947.
If you believe that corporations are going to put your welfare and concerns ahead of their profits, back away from the koolaid.
Walter, how have your wages and real income increased in the last seven years?
In reality, the “average” Minnesotan has little left after, food, housing, gas, and insurance. But HCDFL you say, we still buying things, so the “average Minnesotan must have some extra money, right .
Sorry Walter, that is incorrect, in reality they are deficit spending (credit cards) just like Bush and the Republicans.
In history when America was at war, Americans were told to sacrifice, conserve our resources and the jobs that were created paid workers a living wage. (side note this is right before the time when health insurance became tied to wages)
In Bush’s folly we are told to go about our normal routine, keep spending, don’t question Bush and the Republican’s policy and to be real safe buy duct tape or the terrorist win..
Corporations, with help from Bush ( in the last six years)and the Republicans(the last 40 years), have gotten all there is to get from this country’s workers
The work force of today compared to the work force of 40 years ago now includes women who must work, workers that are working two more weeks a year, and workers who are in debt.
Corporations love workers who are in debt because they are easy to control, they need their job and in most cases need another job, so they don’t rock to the boat (organize).
Every penny the “average” Minnesotan has earned in wage increases has just keep up with inflation, so wages since 2001 have been flat.
By the way Walter, how have Bush’s tax cuts improved your life?
Hey, Minnesota “How has Norm Coleman made your life better?’
That’ll do sheeple, that’ll do
January 5th, 2008 at 11:11 am
it is time to purge the GOp of all of its RINOS..RINOs have no soul, no substance, no true beliefs, we do not need them, let the DFL have their victories, they will not be able to govern, opening the door to true conservatives, not free trade neo cons, SD25 should be a lesson for all the GOP, BTW HCDFL, wha tdoes the GOP have to do wit hhigh gas prices??? NOTHING, it is speculators around the world bidding the price of oil up, you need economics lessons
January 5th, 2008 at 11:35 am
At this critical time, the number one priority for Republicans across the state should be winning seats, even if they are with “RINO†Republicans. As a case in point, even the RINOs protected the Transportation veto override last year.
With that being said, I think the debate is over what duty conservative Republicans have to a RINO candidate. As the lesser of two evils, they probably deserve a vote. But do they deserve your cash or your volunteer time? Should you just roll over and give your full support to a candidate that you are not happy with? That is the question.
BTW, A few years ago, I heard about Ray Cox for the first time. I did a quick google search to find out what Party he represented, and the first thing brought up was his blog. I clicked on the link, and the first thing I saw was a picture of DFL darling Melissa Hortman speaking at one of his recent events. That is pretty much all I needed to know. Tingelstad, Abeler, Earhart, Cox, Hortman. Not much difference at all.
January 5th, 2008 at 11:37 am
I waited a day to post a serious response to Michael’s “Man Not In The Arena” post. I was initially unsure if he was serious. Now that I know he is serious kindly indulge me a few points of clarification.
My intent in posting “Outsmarted, outflanked and outworked in SD25″ on http://www.wrightrepublican.blogspot.com was not to criticize GOP foot soldiers. As a perenial GOP foot soldier I appreciate any effort that anyone puts out for the GOP cause. If any foot soldiers were offended by my comments I sincerely apologize. That includes Michael.
The real intent of my post was to express my opinion that the grassroots mechanism exercised by the left appears to be superior to the grassroots mechanism exercised on the right. It appears to me that the left has worked hard over a lengthy period (of more or less republican dominance) to develop extensive voter ID, issue ID, list management, volunteer recruitment and community building. I have deep concern that the left is doing what appears to be an excellent job of identifying, educating, motivating, cultivating, validating, recognizing, and equipping their troops to succeed. That’s the long and short of my post.
And to digress slightly, I’m not talking about the DFL when I refer to the left. I don’t think their cause is so much a result of DFL party proficiency as it is possibly the effectiveness of third party entities doing the work for them (i.e. MoveOn, Emily’s List, 2020, …etc.)
Ok back to Michael’s robust criticism of me:
I was intrigued that a site dedicated to exposing democrats became the platform for Michael to attack me personally. That’s not been my experience with Michael in the past. We have occasionally disagreed. But to this point he has always graciously opted for a phone call to set me straight. Why he chose to marginalize me personally on his blog while certainly his prerogative is nonetheless surprising.
I did not attack anyone personally in my post. No where did I say anything unkind or disrespectful about Ray Cox. My post was for the most part about the performance of the left. Frankly, I was flabbergasted when I read that Ray had lost. I had no idea. I do not recall any polling about that seat. I am as disappointed as anyone that we lost the seat. Had I known I would have done something to help, although with two full-time jobs I doubt it would have been anything beyond GOTV phoning.
With Michael’s usual panache he reiterates my point that I did not actively participate in the SD25 campaign. He then leaves the lingering stink of sloth in the air to defame my character as an active member of our party. Technically, Michael is as almost always “spot on” about the fact that I was not involved in SD25. In that narrow frame I am humbled to now be considered an award winning blogger, albeit with the cynical insult that MDE intended. I suspect Teddy might be somewhat plussed that his words were used to denigrate one of our own.
Folks who know me personally know both the principles I try to live by and my commitment to contributing to our cause. Michael was careful not to criticize me in that frame although he is welcome to do so publicly or privately if he thinks it could help us keep from getting our asses handed to us again in November.
I’ll be on NARN today with my fellow “award-winning” blogger Mitch Berg at 1:30 or thereabouts. At Michael’s request I will hang around to receive whatever it is that he is so motivated to bestow upon me.
I am hopeful that this experience causes all of us to raise our sights about the job ahead of us for 2008. My experience is that when we talk about how much progress we are going to make we typically find our selves disappointed (2004, 2006, last Thursday).
We are engaged in a grassroots battle with a new level of leftist campaign sophistication. While our ideas are a key ingredient to our prospects for success, there is no excuse for failing to evolve our process to try and meet the abilities of our foe.
January 5th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Those who say they are “willing to stand in the way of anyone with a liberal agenda” but then sit back and allow a liberal to win an election and thereby empowering Larry Pogemiller and the rest of the DFL legislature via a veto-proof Senate, well, they aren’t willing to stand very tall.
When/if any tax increase get passed and overridden this year, people like that will be as much to blame as anyone.
January 5th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
To Mberg:
These are the facts about the endorsement. Seven days before the endorsement convention held on Dec. 5th I got a phone call from a conservative friend that there was an open seat in SD25.
Since I am BPOU chairwoman for one of the 4 counties in this district this friend asked if I knew anyone who would be a good candidate (I was not notified by the state party until they contacted me for my Sibley County delegate lists 6 days before the convention). This friend told me that Ray Cox had already formed a committee and had announced his plan to run. I found this odd since it had just been announced on the radio the night before that Tom Neuville had been appointed to a judicial seat. Cox obviously had already been notified well in advance that this was to happen. It appeared he was the “annointed” candidate, for what ever reason. Maybe it was his name recognition or location (since he lives in Northfield), but at any rate there was not any real delegate input nor was there much time for anyone else to challenge him.
With the urging of a few conservative friends and leaders in the party, my husband Glenn Gruenhagen, decided to consider challenging Ray. We spent a couple of days researching his voting record and the more we studied it the more concerned we became. Ray has a career record with the LEA of about 33%, Taxpayers League at 26%, Minnesota Family Council at 50%. He clearly does not support many important planks in the Republican platform and Glenn felt compelled to hold him accountable by challenging him.
The day before the endorsement we officially decided to go for it. We knew we were at a disadvantage because we live in the least populated North West portion of the district but also knew we could not allow Ray to go unchallenged. This did not give us much time to contact delegates and in addition, the delegate lists that I got from the state party did not include phone numbers for the delegates.
In the end Glenn got 15 of the 47 delegate votes and we felt it was worth it to raise our concerns and give the delegates a choice.
Keep in mind that this all took place over the busy holidays and we run our own business. It was difficult to find time or energy to help out with the Cox campaign. It is even more difficult to do so when you feel less-than-excited about the candidate. I have tried to express this to Chairman Carey and other party leaders in the past. We need good platform candidates to run in order to really energize volunteers to work. Nevertheless, Glenn and I made lots of phone calls and put up signs for Ray (for both the primary and the election). I also went door to door on the day of the election trying to get folks to the polls.
All in all, I agree with Drew; we were outflanked and outsmarted and we need to learn our lessons or we will continue to be in the minority. We also need to run real platform Republicans and hold our legislators accountable. This idea that a candidate needs to “fit the district” is hogwash. Real leaders stand on principle. They are persuasive and know how to bring others on board by educating them in the principloes that made our nation great.
January 5th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Drew wrote:
“With Michael’s usual panache he reiterates my point that I did not actively participate in the SD25 campaign. He then leaves the lingering stink of sloth in the air to defame my character as an active member of our party. Technically, Michael is as almost always “spot on†about the fact that I was not involved in SD25. In that narrow frame I am humbled to now be considered an award winning blogger, albeit with the cynical insult that MDE intended. I suspect Teddy might be somewhat plussed that his words were used to denigrate one of our own.”
——
I’m happy to see that you now get Brodkorb’s Modus Operandi.
This is not just you Drew. Its the same steps when he “exposes” Democrats. You know, the 1000 posts that he previously printed you were cheering him on and lending support and testimony too?
You are now in the great company of Entenza, Hatch, Ritchie, Pfielsticker, Dietrich and many other Democrats who have been ‘exposed’ on here.
Drew Emmer, your phony, part-time, Republicanism, has been Exposed.
One day you guys will see that we’re at a point where you have to get the numbers THEN work out the agenda. Cox or whomever would have been in the minority with the only job of preventing the DFL from a veto over-riding super majority. Now, Pawlenty will have to negotiate and capitulate even more. You shot yourselves in your own foot with your purity test.
Thank You.
January 5th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
[...] « THE FIRST-EVER MINNESOTA DEMOCRATS EXPOSED “MAN NOT IN THE ARENA” AWARD GOES TO… | Home [...]
January 5th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
HCDFL:
Your post here shows the problem with the DFL thinking.
Lets talk about education first. The problem with education isn’t that we’re not committing the money, but how it’s being spent. This was my actual encounter with a Minneapolis School Board member a few years ago when a member of the school board was asking groups to support a tax levy to maintain 16 students per class room.
Question by me: is the average amount of money were spending on a student $10,000 per year
School board member puzzled looks at aide who came with them. The aide nods yes.
Question by me: at the moment the average salary of a teacher with benefits is what $50,000.
School board member with another puzzled looks at the aide. More like $60,000 the aide says.
Question by me: so we’re spending $60,000 on the teacher in the class why do we need to increase taxes to maintain 16 students per class room when you have $100,000 that are being used on administration and waste that can be used
to maintain the sixteen student class room.
The school board member who didn’t understand the concept I showed with just three questions proceeds to claim that there is no waste and that the money was badly needed.
I was arguing with you that to increase education performance lets spend the money better. We had in this $100,000 being spent on adminstration and just $60,000 on the teacher teaching the kids. Can’t we decrease that $100,000 from adminstration to maybe hire a teaching aide or maybe a couple of more teachers?
Wouldn’t that increase the performance of the kids which HCDFL I assume that is who you really care about!
You also say people should be awarded. Students are tested every year. If over a three year period we have two teachers one whose class every year that gets scores going up every year for their classes and the other doesn’t have scores going up or going down shouldn’t the pay reward the teacher who is getting their students to learn and maybe by not giving an automatic cost of living to the teacher whose scores aren’t going up or maybe going down. TNT had a movie based on a true story where a teacher wanting a challenge moved to New York and asked for the class that had the trouble makers and the perceived dumber students. He took that class and before the year was over his class had out performed the class that was suppose to have the smarter students in the same grade level. That teacher I want to be rewarded! The current system won’t do that.
Health Care you think is bad, but how did it get there? Because a long time ago before World War Two everybody was paying their own doctor,their own hospital bills etc. People expected to pay their bills. Part of the way businesses gave wage increases to their workers when the government had imposed wage price controls because of world war II was creating health care paid by the employer. This led to the third party system. Part of the problem we have today people don’t put control of costs because they aren’t writing the checks. A good example of this is when Lasix surgery was first created the costs have been high. Since then doctor have worked on the techniques and the costs have come down! President Bush has a great proposal where the person gets the tax credit for paying for the health insurance because if people forced to pay for the health insurance spend less than the tax credit they make money for saving health costs (and in theory the employer will increase the employers wages to pay for the health care they aren’t paying).
To complicate this problem the government increased the costs of the insurance by saying that HC DFL needs insurance which has hair transplant coverage, mental health coverage. It’s been shown that if you removed some of the mandates you create much lower policy costs.
Another problem with health care is how the fear of lawsuits plays a role. Doctors order extra tests. Doctors in some cases have protected themselves by either not doing practices which can get them sued or moving to states where the malpractice laws protect doctors better. One of the reason people in some areas have trouble getting a doctor is because of malpractice laws (heard of John Edwards?)
A third problem with health care is that people want to cap costs by attacking the drug companies (and for the record in the 1990’s I made about a thousand dollars by buying shares in a drug company battered by Hillary’s health care proposal before the price recoved when the health care proposal died). They point out the magic drug costs just $3 in Canada but $10 in the United States. The reason why the drug is available in Canada is because they can sell it for $10 in the US. Putting caps will discourage the making of new drugs.
I just quoted two reforms and a non reform which if implemented will do more to improve health care and lower the costs without taking over the system or spending new money.
HCDFL it seems like your policy is if a business is evil (drugs, oil, etc.) they are to be attacked as evil. Keep in mind part of the problem is the rules they have to live with. Oil is trading around $100 per barrell. Why? Years ago Bush tried to open ANWAR to drilling even though it needed only a few of the millions of acres to do the job and offshore like in the Gulf of Mexico where Mexico and Cuba drill with no problems. The cries we’re awarding the oil companies. We have to preserve the environment. Oil is at $100 per barrell because the millions of barrells that could be produced today are still not being taken. And the price of gasoline isn’t as bad as last summer. How could that be? Because in the summer gasoline has to have special formulas which add to the cost of gasoline. So even though the price of oil is higher today than last summer the price of gas is lower because right now we don’t have to pay for the special formulas.
So on education, health care, and energy the people you say you care about will benefit by rational policies offered by the Republican party not the Democrats. So join us since you claim to care for the poor and middle class.
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
January 5th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
I hope it’s ok if I bring up some math.
http://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/20080103/Cross_PLD.asp?M=LG&LD=25
http://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/20070807/Cross_PLD.asp?M=LG&LD=28B
Voter turn out was 32% in the Drazkowski special. That was a great victory two weeks after the bridge went down in an environment that is arguably quite worse than today.
Drazkowski had a big team on the ground and a dedicated support plan from the caucus and the CD2 folks.
Turn out in the Cox race was 24%. I bet you are going to think I am going to say “Cox lost because he was not as conservative as Drazkowski.†Nope.
It stuns me that the some activists here would like to blame Cox for not doing their work.
It is convenient to say that candidates lost because they were not conservative enough.
That’s what the know-it-alls said after the 06 elections. Tell that to Reps. Klinzing, Wilkin and Krinkie; three of the best and most conservative house members who lost in 06.
Bachmann good, Cox bad?
Rep. Bachmann does a great job representing the party in DC. As much as I would like to say that those great votes translate automatically into votes for her on election day, they don’t. She lost most of the area she previously represented in the MN Senate (Woodbury& Stillwater) in 2006. It is important to note that she did not overperform the index of that district to anywhere near the number that Cox overperformed the index of his district in 2006. So to simply claim that Rep. Bachmann won because she is very
conservative, and Cox lost because he is liberal is a head-in-the sand copout.
If we don’t get off our asses and vote and give a good reason to others to do the same, November of 2006 will be known as the good old days and we will experience the generation-long minority status that we could not deliver to the Democrats.
Drew Emmer does a great job of holding Republican’s feet to the fire, and if we all had a little fraction of his passion we would better for it. However, as much as we all may wish it to be so Wright County is not Minnesota. Cox would have been a great senator who could hold that seat and deliver for even the most stalwart conservative 95% of the time, especially as the override preventing vote. Now we have a lifer union hack who will put their interests ahead of the folks in Northfield.
We let Ray Cox down and the folks of SD 25 are going to suffer for it.
January 5th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Hahaha, HCDFL really has that “tell everybody how horrible everything is” down, I wonder if the DFL has classes for that part of their game plan I mentioned in post #42? Wait a second, I’m sure they teach it at the Paul Wellstone school of socialism. But anyways, thanks for proving my point in post 49 HCDFL. I seriously wonder how you people get out of bed in the morning. The sky must surely be falling in your foggy world.
January 5th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Drazkowski’s organization and ground game is incredible. It’s a model everyone else would be good to follow.
January 5th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
[...] Comment on THE FIRST-EVER MINNESOTA DEMOCRATS EXPOSED “MAN NOT IN… …in SD25. In that narrow frame I am humbled to now be considered an award winning blogger, albeit with the cynical insult that MDE intended. [...]
January 5th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
I was listening to the Final Word, starting at 3 p.m. MB was on with Mitch Berg and Drew Emmer. I had to turn it off at 3:30 because I could not stand MB’s ranting on this subject.
Case in point: He goes on an on attacking Berg and Emmer for what they wrote in their blogs. When Emmer first starts to explain his side of the story, MB interrupts him and moves the goal posts by now complaining about something that Berg and Emmer said at 1:30.
Sheesh! MB is a wack-job (on this subject).
One “Final Word” on MB’s complaint on the radio today that Emmer was not factually correct when he (Emmer) blogged that there was no great call to arms by the GOP for this race. Namely, MB has been the “King” (Banian or otherwise) of factual mistakes when it comes to his reporting this race. First, he says that the DFL has conceded the race. Next, he says that no one is running radio ads for the DFL candidate. Third, he says that he is getting nothing but good vibes in his door knocking.
Sheesh!
January 5th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
I worked as a activist in Wright County. I appreciate this blog and you work hard with it and thank you but you are wrong about Drew.
Drew has been in there working the streets, the phone banks and motivating people to do their best. He is one of the hardest working activist in our county.
What is happening is that the very hard working conservatives are becoming tired with our party. The four line call by the GOP to help Ray Cox, a moderate Republican, came to me but then I am tired of supporting Republicans who are supporting more taxes and less liberty. But what is concerning is many others, who traditionally do the work,are also tired.
The truth is that conservatives do the work, moderates don’t. You are upset that we did not jump and to to Northfield for someone who refused to create a reason for us to work for him. Ray Cox even failed to get his people to volunteer. Then he refused to give conservatives a reason to take time so when he becomes elected we suspect he most likely will ignore our conservative views.
I know you were in Northfield working for Ray Cox and I bet most of the other volunteers working for him were also good conservatives but doesn’t that prove my point? Why not ask, where were the multitude of moderate Republicans, those who agreed with Ray Cox and excited about his candidacy, working in Northfield for their candidate? Why didn’t Ray Cox ask that question and why wasn’t he organized around them?
I have managed phone banks and if the candidate can produce excitement, we can obtain the volunteers.
The wealthy Left have changed the game. That is Drew’s main point. We must respond to that challenge as they are proving successful. It is not enough to depend on volunteers and we need to organize at a different level – that is evident except to the bureaucrats in our state party who are stuck in their old paradigm. We need leadership and it is lacking at the state level.
Gene Kasper
January 5th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Michael: I listened to you today and I must say that your approach to your colleagues was very unprofessional…and on top of that, urelenting to the point of being childish. Yes, these are harsh words, but come from an elder that listens to a lot of talk radio, is an ardent conservative, has watched Minnesota conservatism for many years, is an Ole(in a persistent battle with its left slide), and understands how far left Northfield has become. The Cox endorsement by the Strib was enough to know he was a RINO.
January 5th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
I listened to the show. It was great radio. I especially enjoyed the part where Rory Koch put Mitch Berg in his place when Mitch claimed the process was “unfair” and “closed” in CD 4. Koch as district chair pointed out how Berg was mostly missing in action when it came to attending party meetings and events.
Also, the claim that all the efforts by the left is all paid people – and that there aren’t motivated volunteers is bogus. There are always some paid people, but most of the work – on both sides – is done by volunteers.
Gene Kasper – you’ve made a fair point about the moderates – they also should have been out there doing some work for Cox.
January 5th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Here’s the bottom line-
The DFL welcomes in all candidates (OK maybe not all the time- I’m not a DFL’r so I don’t know this for a fact- but from what I can see from the outside)…look at CD3 Race- 3 viable candidates representing 3 different factions of their party- then they have lots of forums, lots of PR, etc. then they endorse someboday- then all the candidates throw their support to the endorsed candidate- this brings the numbers as the candidates supporters move over- they feel they got a fair shake and they stay involved through the general election. They win.
Obviously there may have not been enough time to accomplish this in this SD 25 race, but why weren’t the delegates phone numebers provided to the other person interested in running?? perhaps there was time if people behind the scenes knew the appointment was coming. I don’t know.
Let me say this- from being involved in another SD- we are not making the endorsement process as open as it could be- we are not holding candidate forums prior to endorsement- we are alienating fellow GOP’s whether they be strong conservatives, or moderates, or even right-leaning Independents, or whatever- we are losing to the seemingly more open process of the DFL COMBINED with the national left-wing groups (Emily’s list, Sierra Club, etc) that have been through my neighborhood 6 times in 3 years and are compiling list after list of where their supporters live (and then they get them out).
It’s not good– but it could be fixed. I’ll reserve final judgement of the MNGOP until after the ‘08 election.
January 5th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Right,
Hook up the kool aid, take another bite of the sandwich, turn to faux noise or rush, reread the daily talking points and everything will be OK, because you know in your world that the mean and nasty Factman and his sidekick Truth, will be defeated by the right wing misinformation squad.
That’ll do Sheeple, that’ll do
January 5th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Thank you HCDFL- Mr. Airhead America.
January 5th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Without commenting on the campaign efforts of anyone specific, Michael’s fundamental point is a good one and spot on. We each need to look inside ourselves and ask “Did I do enough/anything to help?” If the answer is no, then toungues should be held.
There is a wide gap between the talkers and the doers in this party and we all know what camp we each fall into. Let’s learn from this in November and lodge our complaints and dissent, AFTER we have knocked on some doors, made some phone calls, and raised some money for ALL Republicans.
Once we have all done that, then we may not have to complain about why we lost. Insted, we can all celebrate why we won. There is no substitute for hard work and the individuals who work tirelessly on the ground have my neverending respect and admiration.
January 5th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
HCDFL,
I do have a half of a hoagie from Davannis I was just about to eat. I think I will call Rush and see if he thinks it’s OK for me to eat it. I don’t think it was in the talking points today.
Funny part is that I don’t even listen to talk radio. Funnier thing is when loons like you throw that argument out there that we RIGHT thinkers are brainwashed or something. I personally feel it’s your own insecurity. You can’t win debates on the issues. So you just resort to character attacks and try to marginalize. That, or you actually don’t believe the lunacy you spout out so you have to try to make yourself believe we are brainwashed to feel better about yourself.
You mentioned education previously. How much money do you think it will take for our public schools not to suck? Infact, is there anything that doesn’t suck and need more tax payer dollars and government oversight? Besides National Defense of course… I know you clowns don’t seem to think we need a military or intelligence agency unless they are doing peace corp stuff. How much money do we have to spend for everything to be allright in your world of “Factman and sidekick Truth”?
I’ve often wondered if you libs have your own personal weatherman to give you forecasts on how much the sky is going to fall each day… Maybe it’s Al Gore… He is the climate expert after all.
January 6th, 2008 at 6:39 am
RiR,
***You can’t win debates on the issues.***
Your party can’t talk about issues in an honest, factual manner. It’s “Guns, Gays, And God” in a divisive and dishonest manner, and voters are tired of it.
And BTW – theres plenty of dems that got plenty of guns – I’m one of ‘em. Bootlickers have been so brainwashed by the 2nd Amendment BS elected republiCons, Faux Gnus, and Drug Limpstick have tossed around, they didn’t notice the misAdministration of Bush The Lesser believes not only can they take your guns, they can take you, your wife, your kids, your guns, your private property, AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CHALLENGE THE GOVT’S ACTIONS IN COURT.
Bush The Lesser is the greatest thread to tyranny ever faced by this country, because he and his neo-con pals believe you have NO RIGHT TO HABEAS CORPUS.
***I know you clowns don’t seem to think we need a military or intelligence agency unless they are doing peace corp stuff.
BULL (CHENEY)IN’ SHIT.
Here’s the difference, you ChickenHawk bootlicker:
***How much money do we have to spend for everything to be allright in your world of “Factman and sidekick Truth�
Those two don’t live in your world, Where Boy Blunder is an honest leader, Dick (cheney)in’ Cheney isn’t the worst VPOTUS ever (knockin’ Spiro T. out to get that spot), Valerie Plame was a glorified coffee gofer, and Iran is building “newklear” weapons.
republiCons believe you go to war (with other people’s kids) because you WANT to;
Democrats believe you go to war because you HAVE to.
January 6th, 2008 at 6:43 am
***I know you clowns don’t seem to think we need a military or intelligence agency unless they are doing peace corp stuff.
BULL (CHENEY)IN’ SHIT.
Here’s the difference, you ChickenHawk bootlicker:
republiCons believe you go to war because you WANT to; Democrats believe you go to war because you HAVE to.
And it’s mighty (cheney)in’ funny how all you bootlickers in the party that allegedly believes in “personal responsibility” have failed to hold anyone responsible for the FUBAR the occupation of Iraq has become.
In the misAdministration of Bush The Lesser, those that (cheney) up are promoted; those that really (cheney) up are given medals.
January 6th, 2008 at 10:10 am
I hate Bush, I hate Chaney – hate hate hate – Two Putz -so much anger – you are a true Minnesota Democrat.
January 6th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Say, Mr. Ed?
What do you think of the idea that a US President gets to use “signing statements” to say which laws he will and/or will not follow?
And if the US President doesn’t have to follow legislation passed by the legislative, doesn’t that mean the US President doesn’t have to follow rulings passed by the other branch, the Judiciary?
Here’s the point bootlickers miss, Ed – I don’t complain about what Boy Blunder does simply because he’s “Boy Blunder”; I complain because it’s WRONG no matter WHAT president does it; no matter WHICH party the president is from.
And I don’t “hate” Bush The Lesser; I just can’t believe that I’d ever see a day I’d miss Richard “I am not a crook” Nixon.
You can’t spell “worst” without dubya.
January 6th, 2008 at 11:49 am
A few points here. One person pointed out that Bachmann lost in her Senate district won. Lets point out that Bachmann got the full assult. She had the Democrats nationally. she had everyone of these groups that helped Dahle going against her. She won! Why?
Because she reflected our values and we went out and defended her with money and donations! There are a couple of candidates who might have conservative views wondering if they should run. Hopefully the support Bachmann got will inspire them.
To HCDFL. I went on post number 57 three issues which you seem to care about. Instead you ducked. You didn’t bother to argue how the Democrat ideas are better. Part of the frustration us conservatives have is the winning ideas we express and want are ignored by our people. They run on what they think the people want to hear instead of the ideas and convincing the people that they are better.
To four putt Tommy. We went to war in particular in Iraq because we had to! And in part because the Democrats despite all their tough talk and fluster didn’t lift a finger to stop terrorism or Saddam. Democrats don’t go to war period even if they think it’s need. They try to hold a group hug and say “Can’t we get along” Part of the problem for this foreign policy stuff you hate Bush for is that he’s trying to clean up the messes that Clinton just ignored because he wanted to be popular.
Not to mention I believe all Presidents have always done those signing acts. What is their interpretation of the law.
Just remember folks come February 5th we need to be out in force and reclaim the party!
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
January 6th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Walter has a point. I gave money to Bachmann; I will not make phone calls for, door knock for or in any other way support the amnesty /dream act supporting RINO Norm Coleman. Just like I didn’t do anything to support Cox.
I listened to part of the diatribe yesterday where MB went after his pals. Sorry, but it was disgusting.
January 6th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
[...] By Michael B. Brodkorb | January 6, 2008 Yesterday's show was a complete blast. I want to thank Chris Tiedeman for co-hosting yesterday's radio show in King's absence. Chris had agreed to co-host the show before I started giving out awards, but he showed up and continually kept the discussion focused. I especially want to thank Drew Emmer and Mitch Berg for being guests of the program for the entire two hour. They didn't need to stay for two hours, but they did and the discussion we had was wonderful (some have called it one of the NARN's finest moments). I also want to thank the all-star list of people who called into the program. To the people who had questions about the endorsement process, Chris offered his comments as he served as the parliamentarian of the SD 25 endorsing convention. I encourage people to ready Lady Logician's post on precinct caucus and endorsements by BPOUs. Both Mitch and Drew are hard working members of the conservative movement in Minnesota. Both men passionately defend and promote the conservative philosophy on their blogs and I learned more about their positions during the program. I consider them both good friends and I think we all left the studio better friends then when the show started. While the conversation was passionate, it was respectful. We didn't call each other "zombies", we didn't say that they other person "had blood on their hands". We each had a different opinion about the election in SD 25. The point of lampooning of Drew's and Mitch's posts was point out a larger problem that I see that with a certain element of the conservative movement. Some people like to complain and act, while some people just like to complain. It was my opinion that Drew's and Mitch's posts were about complaining and not about acting. As I wrote, neither of them had done any volunteering for the Republican effort in SD 25, yet they were the first to complain about the loss. But they both complained because they care about the conservative movement in Minnesota. In reality, our very important conversation wouldn't have occurred without Drew's post. For that, we should all offer our sincere thanks. Finally, by poking fun at Drew's and Mitch's post rather than calling them names, I was trying to provide an example of how conservatives can disagree about the Republican party and yet remain good friends. It wasn't a bit, but rather an important exercise. Complain, but also act. Disagree and bebate, but remain friends. We are all on the same side. I tip my hat to Chris, Drew and Mitch. Thank you for appearing on yesterday's show. Thanks for being good conservatives, thanks for offering your suggestions on how to strengthen the Republican Party. [...]
January 6th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
One thing no one is talking about is that Governor Pawlenty gave Neuville the judgeship knowing that he was one vote from the veto override and that SD 25 would be difficult. There was no reason to appoint Neuvile at this time, none. I have no empathy for Pawlenty’s position this session – he did it to himself. Real smart move.
January 6th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Twopudd,
What is Al’s weather forcast today? Judging by your anger, there must be a 80% chance of severe sky falling today.
“”Bush The Lesser is the greatest thread to tyranny ever faced by this country, because he and his neo-con pals believe you have NO RIGHT TO HABEAS CORPUS.”"
Wow. Make sure you have your helmet on when you step outside.
January 6th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Walter;
I was at a caucus training session yesterday, and I didn’t have enough time to correct your GOP regurgitated talking points.
Education, I agree the system is not effective for all students.You assume that all students are the same and they are not, some are right brain, some are left brain, some are auditory learners, some are visual learners, some are kinetic learners, some have cognitive disorders, some have behavioral problems and some have emotional problems, that is just seven of the different learning styles and problems teachers face in their classroom everyday. I know if you can’t handle the heat. In European and Asian countries they separate the students into those that can and those that can’t, won’t or don’t have what it takes to succeed, so their test scores reflect only the best and brightest. In America we guarantee that every child has the opportunity to attend public school regardless of their abilities.
I enjoyed your school board member story, some of them are such tools, I guess that is why most of those on my school board are Republicans.
Did you forget that schools have other costs outside of teachers, that include heat, transportation, insurance, food services, textbooks, technology, paras, secretaries, custodians, bus drivers, lights and many more services that assist students.
Why is it OK to cut the wages of a school’s CEO (superintendent), and yet you defend the right of corporate CEO’s to make millions while their employees struggle to make ends meet?
I agree schools do need to be fixed, but that is a post for another day. Are there some teachers who shouldn’t be teaching, Yes. May I suggest that you spend a day at a school and then let me know what your thought are and what you would do to improve the system.
Health care is in crisis in America, but your suggestion that the free market will correct all the wrong is wrong. The free market has done nothing to reign in the rising cost of health care, except to provide corporations with record profits,
With the Bush plan Americans save money if they don’t go to the doctor or use medications. Isn’t this kind of like rewarding you not to seek medical care and in turn not to use the insurance that you pay for to cover medical care. Beside it your fault if you are not healthy, right.
So with the saving corporations receive from employees taking over their insurance costs, you believe they are going to kick it back to the workers. Corporations will keep every penny of this savings and add it to their profits and American workers will sink even further into debt, with high deductible policies and restricted coverage.
You are right mandates do add to the cost of medical care, but I also don’t feel that it should be necessary for the government to have to mandate that insurance companies cover treatments that they should be covering in the first place(mental health yes, hair transplants no).
Tort Reform and Lawsuits, Bush said that “Ob-Gyn doctor were afraid to practice their love on their patients ” because of law suits and there would be a $60 – $108 billion savings by capping the amount at $250,000, of that $28 billion would be saved by tax payers
The GAO & CBO both said it would make little difference in health care savings and that it is the treatment of patients who received the questionable care that is part of driving up the cost.
Many states have seen the amount of malpractice claims go down in recent years, in Missouri claims dropped to an all time low and in New Jersey claims declined by 21%, but both of these state also saw a surge in the cost of malpractice insurance and large profits for insurers.
Big Phara,
Walter,
Have you ever heard of the National Institutes of Health?, it is a Government funded research lab that makes most of the discoveries that drug companies market. drug companies are suppose to return a certain portion of their profits to NIH but few return the full amount. Drug companies have made as much as a $9 billion profit from tax payer financed research. So the talking point about them not doing any research is true, they don’t the government does it.
ANWAR
1002 the area that is suppose to contain the oil that will end our foreign dependance, has between 5 and 12 billion barrels, and of that only about half is cost effective to recover. It would take ten years to get the operation up and running, and then it would provide only 3.3% of our daily use and last about a half a year at our current consumption rate.
Maybe gas prices are lower this time of the year so that we have or think we have more money to do more spending in the stores. Gas prices are up this week.
Walter;
Your suggestions do nothing more than to put more money in the pockets of corporations and read just like they are straight out of the Republican/corporate America playbook.
You said you are the party of the middle class and the poor, then how come Bush signed a ban on states restricting how they qualify residents for Medicaid using their federally allotted amounts and this on top of the S-Chip veto( New York asked and was turned down to cover families up to $83,000, there is nothing in the bill about this amount). Sounds pro family to me.
Bush also sign a $20 billion tax cut for oil companies.
Always the same, tax cuts for the 1%ers or plenty of money for the war, but no insurance for the children and others in need.
All president have used signing statements, some are standard but none of them have abused the power like Bush.
Walter;
No thanks, I couldn’t suck out enough brains to join your mindless group.
That’ll do sheeple, that’ll do
January 6th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Wow, interesting comments, granted I am just a nobody but it seems nobody is placing blame where it truly belongs, with the Governor. Seems to me he is to blame for this. I hope he learned alot up their in ELY on election day and hope it doesn’t raise my utility rates too much more.
January 6th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I agree about the poor timing on behalf of Pawlenty- it will be interesting when his Climate Change Advisory Group(run by an environmental advocay group out of PA that the MN PCA invited in) makes their recommendations for legislation in Feb. Carbon taxes, congestion tolls and such were on the menu last I looked….(The Star Trib article back in Oct said the CCAG’s goal was to bring metro traffic back to 1990 levels)–there could be some really interesting anti-global warming legislation coming through. Maybe he’ll be up with Will Steiger at the North Poll when it passes.
January 6th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
HCDFL,
*Education, I agree the system is not effective for all students.You assume that all students are the same and they are not, some are right brain, some are left brain, some are auditory learners, some are visual learners, some are kinetic learners, some have cognitive disorders, some have behavioral problems and some have emotional problems, that is just seven of the different learning styles and problems teachers face in their classroom everyday. I know if you can’t handle the heat. In European and Asian countries they separate the students into those that can and those that can’t, won’t or don’t have what it takes to succeed, so their test scores reflect only the best and brightest. In America we guarantee that every child has the opportunity to attend public school regardless of their abilities.
I enjoyed your school board member story, some of them are such tools, I guess that is why most of those on my school board are Republicans.
Did you forget that schools have other costs outside of teachers, that include heat, transportation, insurance, food services, textbooks, technology, paras, secretaries, custodians, bus drivers, lights and many more services that assist students.*
Hasn’t that always been the case for public schools? Sounds like how it was when I was in school. Sounds like how it was when my dad was in school. Hell, sounds like how it was when my grandma was in school. With all the increases over the past decade or so in funding, are kids really smarter or better off today? The DFL answer to education always seems to be that it sucks and it needs more money. Infact, it never could get enough money. My question is, is the money producing positive results? Or at the very least, is the investment worth the return? I was going to school at an inner city public high school in the 90s. If I could somehow go back to my teen age years and head back to school today. I really don’t believe all the funding increases would make any difference.
So either the schools aren’t as big of a problem as you think or alot of money is being wasted. I’m guessing it’s some of both. I’m not saying schools couldn’t use improvement. Everything can use improvement. But I’m saying your side hypes up the “problem” of education, then say you need to throw money at it to “fix it”. But it never gets “fixed”. Because next campaign season it’s always a “problem” again. And that is nice for Dems because then you use the “problem” to buy some votes.
Keep up the noble work.
January 6th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
The state gop also prioritized Michele Bachmann’s race at the expense of other races. The RCCC also put major resources into Bachmann’s race. Add this to a weak opponent.
Michele Bachmann got barely over 50% of the vote in that district – even though it was a district with a strong republican index.
January 6th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
RiR,
Just as some of the posters on this website prove, not everyone is a rocket scientist, just as some also weren’t in past generations. When you and the rest of your family were in school things were different. During your dad’s and grandma’s education schools, taught technical (shop) classes for those that wanted to work and not continue their education. Students are not given that choice anymore, it’s college or Taco Bell . The factories of yesteryear paid good wages and had insurance and pension benefits, Americans could support their families with these jobs and many did.
There are also more students now than ever that need special services and these students add to the costs (about double that of regular Ed students).
NCLB and it’s mandates have added to the costs of public education
Why hasn’t your party stepped up to the plate to address these problems and offer solutions?
Why have they done nothing, except blame the Democrats for increased spending.
Ask Norm Coleman and he will tell you how the Republican controlled Congress increased education funding for six years, but he won’t tell what they did to fix the problem.
What is that saying about people in glass houses?
Just as more spending doesn’t fix the problem less spending won’t either.
That’ll do Sheeple, that’ll do
January 6th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
So in the 12 years since I was in school it all went to hell? Well if I remember right, there never was enough money for education then either. I don’t know how I became the genius I am today. Imagine if I had 12 years of all that increased funding… I’d probably be at NASA. Or a shrink, trying to figure out why the wiring just doesn’t seem to work right in the liberal brain.
I don’t have a problem with increased funding for Edu. But there is never enough money for you libs. That’s why you’d have Paul Welfare out there pushing for a multiple billion dollar edu increases. Or was it a trillion… It’s for the kids!! Vote for me! I think our party makes more of an effort in the accountability area. Afterall, your masters at Edu MN probably aren’t keen on accountability. We don’t have that problem.
More students than ever with special needs… Wonder how much of that has to do with the Democrat nanny state atmosphere that’s been unleashed over the years. Have to make those voters need you right?
But I suppose that’s enough of the edu debate for now. We could go on and on and until some brilliant person figures out the liberal brain as I mentioned above, I’m really just wasting my time. Until we meet again.
January 6th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
HCDFL:
Boy you are a perfect demonstration of what is wrong. I live in Minneapolis. Minneapolis is controlled by the DFL totally. The school board is all DFL! The Minneapolis School Board has gotten every single tax increase that they have asked for. We should have the smartest Rhode Scholars coming out of the Minneapolis School System every year because Democrats run education perfectly! But we don’t. It’s gotten so bad I saw an article in the Star Tribune where blacks were fleeing the school system because they lost faith in it.
You automatically assumed that my goal was to cut the salary of the CEO running the Minneapolis school board. In the example I quoted in #57 $100,000 of the tax dollars met for the class room was being applied to other things. Some of it will be to heat the build but if my heating bill is $2,400 for the year lets apply that to one classroom. That still leaves $97,600. Lets say you pay the principle of the school $84,000 and it has just six classes. That is $14,000 and leaves $82,600. A secretary lets say see gets $48,000. That is $8,000. You still have $74,600. Okay the janitor lets say he earns $36,000. That still leaves $68,600. And the math I used was when we were spending just $10,000 per student. If we’re spending $13,000 we have an unaccounted for $116,600 most of which is the buercracy. In the school buecracy are there some positions that can be cut (corporations have gone through that). No it’s automatic. We must get more money! A whole bunch of private schools are able to function on tuition far less than what we’re spending per student in Minneapolis. Your criticism of Norm Coleman in your last post was get more education money. Tell me how you and the Democrats will spend the money better first! You attacked me, but you have never shown how to spend the money better just get more money better. And part of the problems we have today is that parents are trying to get special tags put on their child because the government will give their children better education. A system that isn’t broken now wouldn’t have parents begging to do that.
On health care we don’t have a real free market. When it comes to Lasix surgery the free market kicked in. The reform is to get it to the free market to begin. The solutions of the people you support are the government controls it just like Canada and England. Heard of waiting lists more than a year for operation. It’s gotten so bad in Canada their supreme court ruled recently that people can buy private health insurance.
On ANWAR lets see if we had it implemented in 2001 it will be kicking in at 2011 the latest. Even if we wave a magic wand to make it happen now that will be 2018. Thanks for the lost seven years. There’s also the Gulf of Mexico. There’s the coast of California. ANWAR is the tip of the ice berg. And of course that is just part of the debate. Electrical power (nuclear and coal are resources the United States has. People say we should be like France. Doesn’t France have more than 70% of it’s power that is nuclear).
New Orleans for example was the example of a Democrat controlled city. The people when hurricane Katrina came expected the government to save their necks. Mississippi where people don’t count on the government recovered faster (maybe that was why the media ignored them),
Everybody got a tax cut. The lowest person cut a rate reduction of .05 which was the equivalent of 33%. Check the stats the wealthiest pay most of the taxes to begin with.
You claim that you have to suck out your brain to join our group. The problem is you have to get an indepent thinking brian instead of being a brain dead zombie:
A Zombie that says the rich are evil!
A zombie that says the corportantion are evil!
A zombie that says only government run health care is the best form of health care (so what if it’s a disaster in Canada and England)
A zombie that says increasing taxes will grow the economy and tax cuts will shrink the economy.
Wow I don’t want to have my brain sucked out to say stupid things like that. That’s why a lot of us on this post have been carrying what the Republicans do for future elections.
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
January 6th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Hey HCDFL you said New York was asking for a family of $83,000 to get health insurance from the government.
Does that mean a family should be able to get a nice care from the government since people need transportation to work?
You’re in favor of college aide so shouldn’t the government give a family that makes less than $83,000 money to pay to let their kids go to a private school since the public schools seem to be a failure.
Okay if a family with an income of $83,000 gets insurance from the government than the government should pay all the utility bills. After all everybody should have heat, power, and water with no problems.
What bills should a family with an income that has $83,000 have to pay? Apparently you seem to think that the government should write a check for everything.
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
January 7th, 2008 at 10:26 am
[...] Dahle’s victory has set off a string of recriminations among Republican Party activists, one side accusing the other of not helping enough and the other complaining about a closed process that produced a weak candidate. In the mix are (of course) remonstrations that the DFL played negative politics to the bitter end on behalf of Dahle. Senator-elect Dahle, for his part, managed to stay positive throughout the short campaign, and now heads to St. Paul as part of a veto-proof majority. [...]
January 8th, 2008 at 6:28 am
Walter;
The family that makes $83,000 is a moot point. It was never part of the S-Chip bill, the limit was $42,000 for a family of four. It was misinformation that was present by the Bush administration to justify the veto.
How do schools spend their state average of $8250,
54.8% salaries (teachers, principals, superintendent, paras, secretaries, nurses, technology staff , food service, bus drivers, janitors, speech therapist, councilors, athletic director, etc.)
21.8% for benefits (insurance, vacation, sick leave, pension, etc)
16% for purchased services ( outside councilors, leadership, computer programs, educational programs, etc)
2.8% capital expenditures (land etc)
1.0% interest, fees, and dues
These are the percentages from my school district, cut away.
Here is how I would make some changes to the educational system,
no grade levels – when the student understands the material they move on, this benefits all students at all learning levels
If RiR doesn’t understand math in fourth grade he is not going to in fifth, yet he is passed on to the next grade without the skills necessary to succeed at the next level of math. On the flip side Walter, a third grader understands all of the necessary skills to succeed at fifth grade math, so that is the level of math he should be doing.
When we were babies and didn’t aLL crawl, walk or talk at the same time why do we think that once a child hits kindergarden they all learn at the same pace.
This leaves the middle and largest group of students, almost all of this group will over the school year gain the necessary skills to succeed at the next level. Out of this group however, as the skills required gets more difficult, you will have a few more RiRs and but also a few more Walters.
If RiR would come to understand the material and gain those necessary skills he can move to the next level, if not he continues to be taught the skills he needs and if Walter has trouble with the more difficult material he can stay at that level till he masters those skills.
It does no one any good to pass a student to the next grade just because of their age.
This is one part of school I would change
Walter;
I take it you think private schools are the answer to the problems with the education.Please enlighten me
January 8th, 2008 at 11:16 am
HC DFL:
It isn’t a moot point! You raised it. You’re the person who threw it out there! Furthermore you took the position that if New York should do it than it implies that Minnesota should do it.
Okay than.
The family of $83,000 should the government pay for a nice car for them?
Should the government pay for their utilities?
Should the government pay for their food?
should the government given them tuition for their kids in grades one – twelve since the Democrats want to give college and pre Kid.
Okay you gave some percentages for schools. But take a careful look at the percentages. The pay for the teacher is broken into two areas. In my example the teacher generated just 37.5% of the money. The Principal with the math I used was 8.75%, the secretary with the math I used was 5.00%, the janitor was 3.75%, other stuff for kids I’ll take your numbers and use 20% all of that adds up to 75%. You’re missing 25%. That is used in adminstration and waste. Lets just say that you committ just 20% to administration and use the extra 5% on the kids. Without increasing taxes one cent you have just dumped using your number $425 per student into the class room.
A major part of the problem and why parents have lost confidence in the system is that happens in school’s not to advance their knowledge. It used to be that school’s held students back. Than the it will hurt their feelings movement took place and that stopped. A student was no longer critictized for saying 2 + 2 = 5. No offense, but that was the mentality of Democrats not Republicans. Of course if a Republican suggested that a black child be left behind because they’re not learning we will be called racist!
I was educated in the public schools and I keep making the point about private schools for these reasons:
One, parents don’t feel now that their child is getting proper attention. Privates schools will probably give their attention better than the public school.
Two, right now the schools get the money and spend the money the way they see fit. A lot of it gets spent on adminstration. If the Minneapolis School Board will ever wake up and fear they are losing more than half their students in one day they might do real reforms.
Three, part of the problem right now is that bad teachers aren’t being held accountable. If half the students from one teacher start getting pulled during the school year it might tip off the school board and principal that teacher might not be a good teacher.
And four, Democrats talk about choice all the time. Shouldn’t the parent have the real power to chose what school their child goes to?
One further point. You keep pointing out that we have to have more money for education. Minneapolis spends far more than your school district does. Our students aren’t learning. The difference in Minneapolis the school board is all Democrat! We’re spending more than $10,000 per student. What does that say about how Democrats manage the system if they get their way? You seem to think just give Democrats more control. I’ve seen it. It doesn’t work!
Walter Hanson
Minneapolis, MN
January 8th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Walter;
You are either the master of spin or an idiot.
My point with the $83,000 was that it NEVER was in the S-Chip bill and thus moot.
Bush and the Republicans used that figure to mislead the country and to justify his veto. Rep. Bachmann also used the $83,000 figure to justify both her votes against S-Chip.
Walter;
Point # 1 Students don’t get enough attention and “probably” will get more in a private school and why is that, maybe because there are 30 students in a classroom in public schools,
Point #2 The people who run the public schools get paid to much and don’t know how to do their job. What would their pay be in the private sector, “probably” higher. You should run for the MSB, put up or shut up as they say.
Point #3 Walter, what is a “good” teacher and what is a “bad” teacher. With NCLB all teachers are now teaching to the tests,
so if all their students pass you are a good teacher, if not your a bad teacher.
Point #4 You really think vouchers will save the day, so how is that working in Milwaukee. Studies have shown that voucher/private schools face the same problems that public schools do, poverty, limited resources, poor leadership and broken families. One more item, these schools are not obligated to serve special education students.
In Minnesota parents can send their children to any school they choose and the home district pays the transportation costs.
I never said more money was needed, but the Republican controlled Congress did for six years, with increases in education spending.
Why didn’t the Republicans fix the problems when they had the chance?
Walter;
How have the Bush tax cuts improved your life?
That’ll do Sheeple, that’ll do.
January 9th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
My point about using the $83,000 figure is that it seems like Democrats want government to pay for everything. You but it in one of your comments so I thought you supported it. I’m sorry. But part of the dispute with the Schip program is that for a program met for poor children some people want it used for adult singles with no children or for people that can easily afford insurcance.
to the best of my knowledge that was the heart of the veto dispute. It’s spin by the Democrats that Bush didn’t care about poor children which is the purpose of this program.
Part of the problem we have with education is Congress in theory shouldn’t be involved. I want to improve the public schools a person should run the local school board not heavan forbid Congress and try to mandate it down.(part of our previous arguments that congress should spend what they are suppose to do). What is needed in a rural school district isn’t what is needed in a city district. Part of the blame Republicans should be that the federal government can’t do it period. We didn’t have that dramatic improvement the previous eight years when Clinton ran the education department.
One college to avoid the possibility of the Federal government telling it what to do tells students they won’t be admitted if they use federal aide. Part of federal money for everything has 535 people telling states how to do it. Unless I mistook my history books I thought the states were suppose to be independent on most issues. And keep in mind the one school district that the federal government controls is bad and parents want the option of vouchers but Democrats don’t want to give what a city that votes more than 80% Democrat wants.
One of the problems we have the I-35W Bridge being rebuilt is that automatic federal environment waivers (wasn’t the bridge built before) would go away if was dramatically different from the previous one not to mention funding was based on the old design.
That might not be answering the debate the way you want it. In the private sector businesses in an effort to compete have learned to limit their payroll. So if you think 25% on administration is okay should we go for 30%? Mind you the business community despite the higher pay for the people will be shooting for 20% or less. One reason why the private sector pays more is that if someone is perceived to be good they get paid more.
the reasons why I don’t take up your idea for running are many. All I know is that under total Democrat controlled and higher spending than your district (in part to have class size smaller than 30 – the example I gave was to maintain 16) hasn’t produced results. That’s why we have to look for approaches to get better results.
the one major problem with Milwaukee or any system you cite is that the entire school population isn’t given that real choice.
part of your problem is that you think large classes can’t be taught. The teacher I cited in the TNT movie had a large class. Keep in mind this was the group that wasn’t consider the better students and before the school year was done he got them performing better than the group that was suppose to be the best in that school.
so just crying we need more money is no excuse. That is the zombie mentality of the Democrat party. More money. Can’t we try to spend better first?
The Bush tax cuts have improved my life because:
* They have spurred the economy and allowed it to absorb several things that would’ve killed an economy in the past 9-11, Hurricane Katrina, war on terror, mortage crisis.
* The federal government is now capable of spending almost three trillion dollars instead of the two trillion dollars when Bush took office. relief like for Hurricane Katirina victims.
* The stock market has gone up so my investments have grown. If I had managed my budget in the past better I’ll have a lot more saved than I do, but that is my fault! It will be nice if I could voluntarily use my Social Security money like Bush wants me to, but Democrats don’t want me and others to have that choice.
I’m happy. Of course I’m an indenpent thinking person.
Walter Hanson
* A poor person can’t go out and hire somebody. They need a business that can make money. Giving tax cuts help people get jobs.
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